Pd application rejected as not referring to natural ground l

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Good afternoon. Don't want to name councils etc but basically I put an application in for a 6m extension to the rear of a property. A neighbour objected due to light, which I can understand but this resulted in the council officer doing a site visit. The officer then also added an objection that the drawing submitted does not show the height of the extension in relation to the true ground level.


The property itself steps down about 3 different heights.

The house is say level 1. The patio to the rear is then approx 20 cm lower and this is where the extension will be. After the patio there are steps leading down to the grass area, a drop of about 1m from the patio. Next to he house runs an alley way which is sloped through that height over approx 24m from the back of the house to the back of the garden

From my understanding the patio is actually backfill to make up a smaller height different.

Looking between the alley way and patio, is higher throughout, but where the patio ends and the bottom level starts is below the alley way height.

So over 24m a height difference of approx 1.2m. Now I've not spoken to the planning officer yet, hoping to make an appointment this week to find out what he will consider as true ground level,, but what would others consider as true ground level or has anyone else experienced this or a similar situation and would like to share their experience?
 
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The wording used in the guidance to the p.d. legislation is 'natural ground level', so you would ignore any fill.
Even so, it would be quite a tall extension if it exceeded the 3m/4m heights for eaves- and overall-height respectively. If your extension satisfies the height requirement at one end, it doesn't matter what the height is at the other end.
 
Thanks for the reply Tony. I was hoping for 3m so I could have flush ceiling between the existing and new in the room. What would you expect that I take as the natural if there isn't a visible one in my garden in the area I want to build on? Taking into account that the lad at the front / house level is higher to the ground at the back? Take the alley as level? Draw and imaginary line from top to bottom and where it intersects?

Also what would be natural ground with ref to the original build? Before the build?
If something has been there for a certain time?
 
The 'natural ground level' can include made up ground but planning will take a view on it, what should have been done and you should still do IMO is demonstrate that on your existing drawings or produce a new section to show it.
 
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Will speak to the planning officer. From my understanding he is a but green so going by the book... as far as I can tell the patio being approx 1m is from the original build, man holes and drainage etc are all 50-60 cm deep from patio rather then the low level... will also suggest it to the architect who did my drawings. Hopefully can resolve this from patio height as if I have to go from natural ground level I think the roof of the extension would end up somewhere in the middle of the living room so would not be worth considering doing !
 
Spoke to the Officer today, he initially sounded a bit confused/lost for words as if he wasnt sure where to take it from, eventually agreed that if i took a line from the house to the back of the garden, as well as show the end of the patio and the drop and include that on the drawings that may be sufficient... (as suggested by Freddy!) fingers crossed!
 
Had the architect round to measure up today, this application keeps getting worse!

Seems that the inside floor level at the back of the house is already approx 40cm above natural ground level! so by the time you get to the other end of the extension - approx 6m, it would be about 1m below the existing floor level inside the house. Wouldn't be a problem if it was to be cavity and floating floor, except once you take off enough for roof insulation, joists etc, i'd be left with an interior ceiling height of approx 1.8m... well not worth the effort!

Alternatively looking at possibly dropping the existing floor level of the room at the back, that would join onto the extension and have the extension with a lower floor as well... Not had the floor up yet but looking at air bricks outside, the bottom of one air brick at the back of teh house is approx 40cm higher then the raised patio, suggesting that there is a possibility of digging or even already a large hollow gap under the floor area of the existing room...

Anyone got any other suggestions while my architect redraws with the new heights?
 
Quite a lot of extensions that I see have the extension at a lower level than the existing house floor with 2-3 steps down.

Why would you not be happy with that? It may be all that you can get away with!

I am a little surprised that the architect did not include a front to rear section showing the relevant levels.

Tony
 
Other half doesn't really want the steps - i'd be happy with a 5cm-10cm step , this would potentially be 1m in difference - which would potentially mean that the existing foundations would not be deep enough, and then the whole cost snowballs into something which isnt in my budget!

Think he may have missed it as the patio, side alley etc is all the same level, neighbor already has a 3m high extension next to where we would be building...

I'm gonna sent the updated plan directly to the planning officer and see if he is happy to except it with the heights shown. The patio and built up land as far as i can see have been as they are pre 1999...
 
Why would you not be happy with that?
Because it's crap.
A bit harsh.

I would say not ideal but that would depend upon occupants and how the room was used.

We built a two storey one last year whereby the ground floor room dropped 450mm and the bedroom was a 200mm step down. The ground around the building did slope steeply from front to back.
 
It is suppose to be an open plan kitchen/dinner/living room, with a utility/pantry room in the middle of the house, but if i need a meter worth of steps, may have to re think the utility/pantry room, which would result in a change to the whole layout...
 
Yep have only ever had a step down when the natural/existing land levels have necessitated it but still a bit crap and to be avoided if at all possible.
 
Just to update,
I emailed both a level and dropped plan to the planning officer, he dismissed the level straight out, so dropped it will have to be, along with another spanner.

As the extension goes, we will need to drop the floor level by approx 40cm from the original house, and the "ground level" where it meets the extension.
At the far end of the extension there will be a difference of approx 80cm from ground to finish floor level, IE a drop from the existing patio down to floor level of 80cm, natural thing would then be to drop the patio (given that the patio is now high compared to both the house and garden that it separates... however i will need to put a planning application in as it will be higher then 30cm above natural ground level (though 80cm below existing level!) :S

I get the feeling that the council don't want me to build 6m out without a lot of hassle...

Been doodling layouts and we have got something which my wife and i think will work, with two steps to bring it down from existing to new finish floor level, room at the rear, new kitchen and new dinning room will all be open, and at the same level (subject to no nasty's found under the existing floor!)
 

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