Possibly a stupid question (screw sizes)

[RipGroove99]

So I bought a box of 12 gauge wood screws, then bought a Dewalt Flip Drive set. The flip drive set States it can countersink, pilot and drive No12 screws but the screw head diameter on my 12ga screws is 11.5mm and the countersink bit in the Dewalt set is only 9.5mm, also the pilot is 3.2mm which seemed a little small for my 12ga screws plus the PZ2 driver bit in the set was far too small for my screws.

So I figure 12 gauge and no12 are two different things? If that's the case how come Dewalt don't do a different set for each?

Anyone know of a chart where I can compare "gauge" sizes to "No" sizes and find out all the pilot and countersink sizes required? I've seen a few charts by googling it but none of the dimensions match that of my 12ga screws that I've bought.

Depending on what charts I look at I keep finding different figures?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

So I bought a box of 12 gauge wood screws, then bought a Dewalt Flip Drive set. The flip drive set States it can countersink, pilot and drive No12 screws but the screw head diameter on my 12ga screws is 11.5mm and the countersink bit in the Dewalt set is only 9.5mm, also the pilot is 3.2mm which seemed a little small for my 12ga screws plus the PZ2 driver bit in the set was far too small for my screws.

So I figure 12 gauge and no12 are two different things? If that's the case how come Dewalt don't do a different set for each?

This is possibly because DW are a bunch of...... muppets. That or, like every other "do it all, all things to all men" tools the set is somewhat of a compromise.

Trend Snappy drill/countersinks for #12 (or 12 gauge - same thing) use a 1/2in (12.7mm) countersink. For #10s they used to offer just a 3/8in (9.5mm) countersink, although recently they've added a 1/2in countersinks as well - because some #10s have large screw heads. This is because screw manufacturers seem to be a law unto themselves. In other words there are seemingly NO standards for screw head sizes, just for the shanks. Hence no charts will be found on the 'net or anywhere else

Similarly you'll find that #12 screws are invariably PZD #3 heads, whilst #10s are a mainly PZD #2s with some PZD #3s also on the market these days

The other thing to watch for is that with the move over to metric many screws are being dual labelled; for example 5.0mm and #10 are labelled as the same, as are 6.0mm and #12. They aren't, but for MOST practical applications it takes little difference

 

[RipGroove99]

So I bought a box of 12 gauge wood screws, then bought a Dewalt Flip Drive set. The flip drive set States it can countersink, pilot and drive No12 screws but the screw head diameter on my 12ga screws is 11.5mm and the countersink bit in the Dewalt set is only 9.5mm, also the pilot is 3.2mm which seemed a little small for my 12ga screws plus the PZ2 driver bit in the set was far too small for my screws.

So I figure 12 gauge and no12 are two different things? If that's the case how come Dewalt don't do a different set for each?

This is possibly because DW are a bunch of...... muppets. That or, like every other "do it all, all things to all men" tools the set is somewhat of a compromise.

Trend Snappy drill/countersinks for #12 (or 12 gauge - same thing) use a 1/2in (12.7mm) countersink. For #10s they used to offer just a 3/8in (9.5mm) countersink, although recently they've added a 1/2in countersinks as well - because some #10s have large screw heads. This is because screw manufacturers seem to be a law unto themselves. In other words there are seemingly NO standards for screw head sizes, just for the shanks. Hence no charts will be found on the 'net or anywhere else

Similarly you'll find that #12 screws are invariably PZD #3 heads, whilst #10s are a mainly PZD #2s with some PZD #3s also on the market these days

The other thing to watch for is that with the move over to metric many screws are being dual labelled; for example 5.0mm and #10 are labelled as the same, as are 6.0mm and #12. They aren't, but for MOST practical applications it takes little difference

Wow so it seems everything is pretty messed up then. Just had a closer look at the box for the screws I bought and all it says is:

12 x 2 1/2 so is this "No12" or "12 Gauge" or are they both just the same thing?

And if they are both just the same thing how come DeWalt are so far off the mark? I have actually just emailed DeWalt as you never know, they might have an answer for me.

There is no way the Flip Set I have is capable of piloting, countersinking and driving the "12" screws that I have, even though the bit in the set is clearly labelled "No12", as said above, the pilot, countersink and driver bit are all too small.


Looking at your above link, this should do the job then for my "12" screws, and it'll actually fit in the DeWalt Flip Drive holder so thats also a bonus for me, so I've just ordered one:

http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/SNAP_CS_12/4/306/trend_snappy_countersink_with_964_drill_.html




.

 

[RipGroove99]

Also I've just measured all the bits in the DeWalt set and I'm actually quite annoyed with them now:

No.6 = 2.4mm drill + 9.5mm countersink

No.8 = 2.8 drill + 9.5mm countersink

No.10 = 3.2mm drill + 9.5mm countersink

No.12 = 3.2mm drill + 9.5mm countersink

So looking at that both the No.10 + No.12 bits are identical?!! What's the point in that?! It seems like their No.10 is OK but they haven't really bothered with a real No.12, they've just chucked in another No.10 and wrote No.12 on it!

So if you were to buy this (DT606):

http://www.freewayuk.co.uk/product/11758/10-pilot-bit-4-cutter-countersink

And this (DT607):

http://www.freewayuk.co.uk/product/11758/10-pilot-bit-4-cutter-countersink

You'd actually be getting the exact same thing twice even though they different DeWalt part numbers!

Also as above the set does not contain any PZ3's at all, the supplied PZ2's are far too small for driving the No.12 screws.

The so called "11 Piece Set" is actually just an "8 Piece Set" including the duplicates:

1 - 2x PH2 bits
2 - 2x PZ2 bits
3 - 1x No.6 pilot & csk
4 - 1x No.8 pilot & csk
5 - 2x No.10/No.12 pilot & csk
6 - drill & csk holder
7 - flip holder
8 - allen key

Thanks DeWalt.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Wow so it seems everything is pretty messed up then. Just had a closer look at the box for the screws I bought and all it says is:

12 x 2 1/2 so is this "No12" or "12 Gauge" or are they both just the same thing?

Yes. Just different ways of expressing it. because we also have metric screws and there are screws such as 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, etc I've taken to using the American hash symbol to indicated gauge or number screw so that nobody sends me #6 screws when I've ordered 6.0mm (or vice versa)

And if they are both just the same thing how come DeWalt are so far off the mark?

I don't know - but Trend Snappy are a LOT closer in my experience (I had a DW set a long time ago....). Maybe DW just buy-in a Chinese product - and we all know have accurate they can be

 

[RipGroove99]

Wow so it seems everything is pretty messed up then. Just had a closer look at the box for the screws I bought and all it says is:

12 x 2 1/2 so is this "No12" or "12 Gauge" or are they both just the same thing?

Yes. Just different ways of expressing it. because we also have metric screws and there are screws such as 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, etc I've taken to using the American hash symbol to indicated gauge or number screw so that nobody sends me #6 screws when I've ordered 6.0mm (or vice versa)

And if they are both just the same thing how come DeWalt are so far off the mark?

I don't know - but Trend Snappy are a LOT closer in my experience (I had a DW set a long time ago....). Maybe DW just buy-in a Chinese product - and we all know have accurate they can be

Right so as in my previous post then where I measured eveything it seems that it's just DeWalt being extremely lazy then and rebranding their No.10 for use as a No.12, even though it won't actually work!