Removal of passenger lift & lift shaft in a block of fla

[teccyjim]

Firstly, hello! I couldn't see an appropriate forum to formally introduce myself so my first post is as good as any! I'm an aircraft technician by trade but moving into property development as an investor along with two friends. We have an exciting opportunity to purchase a five storey property containing 12 flats, in need of modernising above all else.

So my query (the estate agent has been of little to no help!): The building had (or perhaps still has) a very old passenger lift which a previous owner decommissioned, we think due to the many safety regulations brought about by LOLER in 1998, the cost of replacing or upgrading was prohibitive and hence no longer in use. The lift entrances as far as we can tell have been panelled over and painted to match the decor of the lobby. My mother's friend used to deliver Avon (haha!) to a flat in the building many, many years ago and said it definitely had a lift as she got stuck in it a few times!

So:
A) would planning permission be required to remove the machinery, working parts and electrics from the shaft? Or:
B) would planning permission be required (along with significant structural work) to knock-through the shaft to expand space available within the flats?

I'm banking on the fact they've left everything in situ and just sealed it off. My concern here is that with it being an old lift(if still there?) there is likely to be an abundance of asbestos in the shaft for friction parts and fire protection that would require professional removal. This might be for a lift engineer to comment?

Any assistance most appreciated.

Kind regards,
Jim

 

[footprints]

My wife's uncle used to be a lift engineer and had some tests done for asbestos related diseases (thankfully he was clear) I remember at the time he mentioned that asbestos was very common in the shafts as you say.

 

[tony1851]

In removing the lift completely, you might fall foul of Part M of the Building Regs. Although it has not been in use for some time, the fact that it is still there along with the shaft might count for something.
Why not have a chat first with your local Building Control people to guage their opinion?

 

[teccyjim]

Sadly, like the estate agent, the building control department has been most unhelpful, taking the stance that as I'm not the building owner, I'm not entitled to that information!?

I've checked the online planning permission records and there is no mention of any such work done or planned, regarding the lift shaft. It's reasonable to assume the lift is still there in some capacity?


Thank you for the Part M info - there is currently no provision for disabled access to the upper floors!

 

[mattylad]

No access for disabled to the upper floors?

Sounds like a lift might be a good idea then

 

[teccyjim]

I'm starting to think this potential purchase may be a 'pandoras box'.

Without studying the Part M in it's entirety, must a privately owned building with multiple occupancy over ##floors have disabled access provision?

With only stair access, is the present owner breaking any law or legislation?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm an aircraft technician by trade but moving into property development as an investor along with two friends. We have an exciting opportunity to purchase a five storey property containing 12 flats, in need of modernising above all else.

Sounds like too big a project for your first one.

Was it the people tying to offload this dilapidated building with the broken lift as "an exciting opportunity"?

 

[OwainDIYer]

The building freeholder may be required to make 'reasonable provision' for access under the disability discrimination provisions of the Equality Act. Buy to let landlords are required to.

If the block really is 5 storeys then I would recommend you seriously consider installing a lift especially as you already have a shaft. 5 storeys without a lift will put off a lot of potential buyers - anyone with a baby and pram - and be harder to let if your buyers are buy-to-let landlords. Depends on the target market, but a lift will be expected by the more affluent buyer.

Modern hydraulic lifts are much more reliable and cost less to run than old motor operated lifts and the cost divided by 12 flats may be affordable.

 

[teccyjim]

I'm an aircraft technician by trade but moving into property development as an investor along with two friends. We have an exciting opportunity to purchase a five storey property containing 12 flats, in need of modernising above all else.

Sounds like too big a project for your first one.

Was it the people tying to offload this dilapidated building with the broken lift as "an exciting opportunity"?

Sorry, I should have included this isn't my first but would concede you are probably correct; first, third, tenth....this is starting to look like a money pit and well out of my experience field so take your comment on the chin. Exciting? Well, the projected margins in the flat rentals over the purchase price (including the aforementioned modernisation) were certainly exciting but factoring in a new lift makes me reconsider. Your help and opinions are invaluable in the absence of council and estate agent help, so thank you.

Above all, I don't fancy any potential litigation from disabled folk who should have the ability to access any part of the building as well as any other.

Thank you again.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry, I should have included this isn't my first but would concede you are probably correct; first, third, tenth....this is starting to look like a money pit and well out of my experience field so take your comment on the chin.

Nothing to take on the chin - from what you wrote I did think it was your first, but if you think, given your experience, that this is a risk too far, then heed your gut and walk away before the excitement becomes too much to bear.

the projected margins in the flat rentals over the purchase price (including the aforementioned modernisation) were certainly exciting

Were they projected by anyone with an interest in the sale?