Remove pebbledash, or smooth over?

[Jamesnel]

Hello!
Sorry to add to the long list of posts on this topic, but I've searched them all (I think!) and can't find one that solves my issue.
The mid-terraced house we've just bought has a painted (mushroom colour - lovely!), pebbledash front and rear elevation. In honesty, it might not actually be pebbledash, as it feels quite sharp all over, you wouldn't want to run your hand over it!
The surface would appear to have been applied to hide the damage caused by a bulge appearing in the wall (now restrained).
We've decided we can't live with it, and have now had four opinions from builders as to our options. One has said he would remove the pebbledash and re-render (at huge cost!), two have said they would smooth over it, and the fourth recommended not doing anything, other than re-painting, as the bricks might be damaged by removing the pebbledash, and if we go over the top of it, the render and pebble-dash might fall off due to the weight!
Problem is, every person seems adamant that they are correct, and the others are wrong! Has anybody got any idea as to what the best solution would be??

 

[par1sons]

I wouldnt smooth over it thats for sure because if a crack does appear again at anytime the crack will just simply make its way through onto your render.
Also, applying more render would probably creat alot of stress on the adhesive currently holding the render to your brickwork. The weight could be an issue.

My way would be to higher some scaffolding or buy some secondhand (would be cheaper and then re-sell after) and remove all your current render, this is very time consuming but if any damage is located on your brickwork it can be restored. Once your happy with your brickwork etc then get a render specialist to render the house properly. Be care because there are alot of cowboys out there who simply think rendering is easy. This isnt the case, two years down the line you dont want render falling off your brickwork. Paying someone decent money now and making sure they are specialists will save you so much money in the long run.

My prevouis neighbours had render applied straight on top of there old pebbledashing and 6 months down the line it looked awful. You could tell it wasnt done correctly and they paid £800 just for the front to be done.

Another way would be to remove your existing render and think about sand blasting your brickwork so it looks like new. I have no idea how much this wold cost but when brickwork is sand blasted it looks stunning.

I have limited experience when it comes to this kind of thing but my moto is never go for the cheapest and never buy cheap if you do it will cost twice as much and will take twice as long to repair. Do it right first time (thats a long moto)

AndyP

 

[Jamesnel]

Hi Andy, thanks for your advice.
I think the best route is to take off the pebledash, as it seems that the only thing that would stop me from doing that is the cost, and I can just do it over a few days (or, most probably weeks!)!
Thanks again,
James

 

[gibbs69999]

good advice from andyp

 

[Jamesnel]

Ok, I have now had another builder look at it, and he says the covering is actually called Tyrolean. Does this make any difference? I have read elsewhere that tyrolean is suitable for rendering over.... but I'm not so sure... I don't want render falling off in years to come!

Any further help warmly received!

 

[gibbs69999]

you can render over tyrolean no problem as long as its sound, but you can't render over paint, so i sugest either power hosing the paint off or chipping the tyrolean off, which is'nt very thick but is made from a strong mix.

 

[Jamesnel]

Sorry to be so ignorant about this stuff, but is it definate that my tyrolean is painted? It is a mushroomy brown colour (nice!) but it doesn't look painted. Is there a way I can tell?

 

[RIBAArchitect]

You can render over tyrolean type applications but even with a PVA size preparation the scratch coat will struggle to adhere to the tyrolean without other assistance as most tyrolean applications are through coloured, and yes its the paint content that causes an issue.

If you choose to render over you need to do one of two things to have any hope of longevity; apply render direct and it will blow, crack and go hollow in a matter of weeks.

1. You can abrade the surface of the tyrolean with an angle grinder used flat such that the sub base regularly shows through and to which the scratch coat will 'grab'. This however will be time consuming, you'd need to expose at least 50% of the sub base) and create a lot of dust and certain renders from say 30 years ago and beyond can have an asbestos content to create the texture; a mask, and not one of those silly paper ones is therefore a must. Tyrolean has a dreadful habit of blowing where it has been compromised by moisture behind where it will easily flake off, but everywhere else it sticks like the proverbial to a blanket!)

2. You would have a far more guaranteed result from using an expamet material (Expanded metal sheets) fixed regularly to the wall such that there are no areas of 'bow'...probably about 200 mm staggered centres depending on the flatness of the substrate. The mesh provides a key an reinforcement for the scratch coat and effectively reinforces and bonds it to the wall. However, for external applications you must use stainless steel mesh, not galvanised, and this is about £20 - £30 for a sheet 2500 x 750 mm: Expensive!!

If you over render you need to consider the detailing very carefully; all edges need to ensure that water cannot ingress behind as this would compromise the new layer very quickly.

The best way by far of dealing with unsightly Tyrolean is to use a good quality masonry paint in a colour that you like! Applied with a stiff bristle masonry paint brush in a stippling manner this gives good coverage and also removes much of the harsh/sharp texture.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Try checking the dates RIBA, you'll get some stick with that username!

 

[RIBAArchitect]

Dates?

Do you mean for asbestos use? Its possible that white asbestos was still being used in both Tyrolean and Artex up until about 1985 (it was phased out in 1989 but not banned entirely until 2004)

Stick?

I won't be worried about unwarranted allegation, I don't speak where my experience and qualifications do not allow me to do so with conviction.

I came across this question by digressing from a parallel 'google' search; I have given advice freely that I normally charge handsomely for; take it or leave it. There are so many 'experts' in the building industry causing problems everyday that pay my mortgages when I'm called in to sort out the mess.

 

[Deluks]

He meant that the original post is from 1997.

Doesn't matter what line you're in, still gotta earn the respect on here.

Good first post though, (whilst being of no use now to the OP but may help others)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

 

[Perfectionista]

...2 yrs later, another reply.
@RIBAArchitect - many thanks for your well-written and informative post. It may not have helped the original poster, but it was very helpful today and certainly made this thread more valuable.
Thanks