Removing a chimney breast

[stm]

We are in the middle of refurbishing a shop which is on the ground floor with a flat above it which we also own.

The shop has what was left of a fireplace. In the room above (in the flat), what would have been the continuation of the internal stack was already removed prior to us purchasing the building. Above that, on the second floor, the loft has been converted in to another room.

To gain some more floor space in the shop, I want to remove the fireplace/stack. Its the red bit I want to remove in this picture...



In the room above, when they removed the stack, it appears they put a lot of the rubble down in the stack below and then capped it in concrete/cement. See this picture...



Am I right in thinking that because this is no longer supporting anything directly above, can I take it out? How would it be tied in to the wall of the building? It is a mid terrace building and there is another shop on the other side of the wall.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[stm]

I've read a few of the previous chimney breast removal threads now (should have searched first!!). I realise there may be joists supported by the breast - I assume I am ok to remove the cement 'cap' from above to investigate further and see where the joists are?

 

[Newboy]

Easier to knock a few holes in the ground floor ceiling to locate the joists. More than likely, there will be a trimmer along the front of the chimney breast.

 

[stm]

Easier to knock a few holes in the ground floor ceiling to locate the joists. More than likely, there will be a trimmer along the front of the chimney breast.

Thanks, makes sense. I was wondering how the joists would be supported at that end.

 

[Doggit]

A good plasterer will be able to patch the hole left when you remove the chimney, but if you start knocking holes in the ceiling, the you'll need to overboard and then plaster the lot.

Joist often run parallel to the fireplace ( rather than away from it) so knock out the rubble in the room above and check first. As you knock out the chimney breast, you'll find every other brick is tied into the wall, so these need to be cut off; club hammer and bolster, sds drill, or stronger, will depend on your tool box.

 

[stm]

A good plasterer will be able to patch the hole left when you remove the chimney, but if you start knocking holes in the ceiling, the you'll need to overboard and then plaster the lot.

Joist often run parallel to the fireplace ( rather than away from it) so knock out the rubble in the room above and check first. As you knock out the chimney breast, you'll find every other brick is tied into the wall, so these need to be cut off; club hammer and bolster, sds drill, or stronger, will depend on your tool box.

Floor boards above run parallel with the breast so joists must be perpendicular unfortunately.

Extending joists correctly and safely is probably beyond my experience!

 

[Doggit]

Extending joists is dead easy. You want piece of floor joist to go from the wall to at least 1500mm alongside the old joist. You'll use a couple of accrows with short lengths of scaffold boards on the floor, and under the ceiling and take out the chimney breast You lift the floorboards upstairs and lay the new joist piece alongside one of the short ones, and then cut a hole in the wall to slide it in to. You then trim off any plaster sticking through the lathes where the joist will rest, and then place the new one alongside the old one. Next drill a hole through both joists, to take a no 10 coach bolt with a plate washer on the nut end, and then tighten the nut up (3 spaced along where the 2 joists meet. Then relay the floorboards.

Alternatively, having got the accrows up, take out a few layers of bricks at the top of the chimney breast, and then do the joist work, and then take out the chimney breast.

 

[vinn]

newboy,
you have given a technically ignorant, very foolish suggestion. The idea on here is to give a bit of advice not to suggest that OP's destroy their property.

"Easier to knock a few holes in the ground floor ceiling" - what nonsense is that? Making unnecessary work - what if the ceiling is plaster laths? What would the purpose be or is that something you suggest as a matter of course - "First, before anything else, lets knock a few holes in the ceiling".
All thats necessary, without any destructive examinations or holes in ceilings, is to simply look at the nailing pattern or run of the floor boards to determine the trimming joist positions.

FWIW: there's actually no need to locate the trimming joists or expose them before demolition of the c/breast begins - as the top bricks are removed the trimming arrangement will become quite clear.
First floor and above hearths rarely have joist tails sitting actually in the c/breast brickwork.

Chimney breasts are not built to support floors.