Shower pump location

[virgilns]

Hi all, I have a question about where to locate a power shower pump.

I've the a timy shower/toilet room and plan on replacing the existing electric shower with a proper pump and mixer combo. Done this before and sited the pump next to the HW cylindar in the airing cupboard in the spare bedroom.

Would liketo avoid this this time as we're just about to put a new born baby in there and don't want the pump noise to be an issue for the new born!!

The Shower room is tiny and nowhere really to hide a pump. Airing cupboard is at back of house on the attached side and the shower room is at the front of the house on the detached side.

Planning on running the pipes along the landing under the floor between the joists...

The only other place I can think to put it is in the loft space beside the cold water tank feeding the HW tank, but would there be enought head to start the pump under gravity?? And is it the fact the pump will be drawing hot water up to the loft space before sending it back down to the shower an issue?

Thanks,

Virgil.

Any other ideas for locations??

 

[Richard C]

Would liketo avoid this this time as we're just about to put a new born baby in there and don't want the pump noise to be an issue for the new born!!

Not sure if this your first but being old hands with 2 daughters who now have their own children, we have practical experience of this. In all honesty you’ll be making a rod for your own back if you tiptoe around the house & have the TV turned right down trying not to make any noise. The baby will wake up at the slightest noise & you won’t be able to take it anywhere because it will be so used to silence. Carry on as normal & make as much noise as you would normally, within reason, & the baby will quickly get used to it. When installing my daughters shower systems, around a year ago, she was concerned about the very same thing but I finally managed to convince her to let me install the pump in the airing cupboard which is between her then 3 month old baby & 3 year old sons bedrooms. In sprite of dad getting up & showering at 6 am weekdays, she doesn’t hear a peep from either of them. They also have their TV & music very loud in the evenings (much louder than I do in fact) & that doesn’t bother them either. They have friends who made the mistake of being too quiet & their 2 year old is now a nightmare who will only go to sleep if there is total silence.

For the pump installation; you can fit a pump in the loft but you need to install an anti-gravity loop on the supply from the cylinder, maintain a minimum of 600mm from the base of the CW tank & the pump & 100mm to the shower head or you will need a negative head pump; you may still need one if you can’t meet the minimum 0.6 litre/min flow rate necessary to trigger the pump flow switch. Pumps are designed to push not pull, the further away from the HW cylinder/CW tank you position the pump, the lower the performance until you reach a point where there is little point in having the pump at all. You must also ensure a minimum of 200mm from the surface of the cold water in the tank to the highest point on up & over pump loops or they will air lock; vents are usually necessary on these. A side fitting Essex flange is the preferred option by practically all pump manufacturers.

You might find this a useful place to start;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/media/5199-Installation-Monsoon-Standard-2.0-bar-Single.pdf
Monsoons are also reasonably quiet; come back with specific questions if you need to.

 

[virgilns]

Would liketo avoid this this time as we're just about to put a new born baby in there and don't want the pump noise to be an issue for the new born!!

Not sure if this your first but being old hands with 2 daughters who now have their own children, we have practical experience of this. In all honesty you’ll be making a rod for your own back if you tiptoe around the house & have the TV turned right down trying not to make any noise. The baby will wake up at the slightest noise & you won’t be able to take it anywhere because it will be so used to silence. Carry on as normal & make as much noise as you would normally, within reason, & the baby will quickly get used to it. When installing my daughters shower systems, around a year ago, she was concerned about the very same thing but I finally managed to convince her to let me install the pump in the airing cupboard which is between her then 3 month old baby & 3 year old sons bedrooms. In sprite of dad getting up & showering at 6 am weekdays, she doesn’t hear a peep from either of them. They also have their TV & music very loud in the evenings (much louder than I do in fact) & that doesn’t bother them either. They have friends who made the mistake of being too quiet & their 2 year old is now a nightmare who will only go to sleep if there is total silence.

For the pump installation; you can fit a pump in the loft but you need to install an anti-gravity loop on the supply from the cylinder, maintain a minimum of 600mm from the base of the CW tank & the pump & 100mm to the shower head or you will need a negative head pump; you may still need one if you can’t meet the minimum 0.6 litre/min flow rate necessary to trigger the pump flow switch. Pumps are designed to push not pull, the further away from the HW cylinder/CW tank you position the pump, the lower the performance until you reach a point where there is little point in having the pump at all. You must also ensure a minimum of 200mm from the surface of the cold water in the tank to the highest point on up & over pump loops or they will air lock; vents are usually necessary on these. A side fitting Essex flange is the preferred option by practically all pump manufacturers.

You might find this a useful place to start;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/media/5199-Installation-Monsoon-Standard-2.0-bar-Single.pdf
Monsoons are also reasonably quiet; come back with specific questions if you need to.

Thanks, mate.

Just went to post progress, but noticed my last post from Firday thanking you doesn't appear...strange access through work proxy's!!

Pump sited and have managed to get it below floorboard level (so it sits on a large RSJ, so sound should be deadened I hope)

Pipe work mainly in...decided to go under the bedroom and landing floorboards rather than through the loft space...now just need to connect it up and see if I have any leaks!

Thanks for the help.

Neil.

 

[virgilns]

Stuff....

Thanks again Richard...pump working last night and have nice hot shower! Plumbing work was a right @*&&er though as needed to disturb as little fo the rest of the house as possible whilst running the pipes under the floors!

Cheers,

Neil.

 

[Richard C]

Your welcome

 

[Stevepud]

For the pump installation; you can fit a pump in the loft but you need to install an anti-gravity loop on the supply from the cylinder, maintain a minimum of 600mm from the base of the CW tank & the pump & 100mm to the shower head or you will need a negative head pump; you may still need one if you can’t meet the minimum 0.6 litre/min flow rate necessary to trigger the pump flow switch. Pumps are designed to push not pull, the further away from the HW cylinder/CW tank you position the pump, the lower the performance until you reach a point where there is little point in having the pump at all. You must also ensure a minimum of 200mm from the surface of the cold water in the tank to the highest point on up & over pump loops or they will air lock; vents are usually necessary on these. A side fitting Essex flange is the preferred option by practically all pump manufacturers.

You might find this a useful place to start;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/media/5199-Installation-Monsoon-Standard-2.0-bar-Single.pdf
Monsoons are also reasonably quiet; come back with specific questions if you need to.

Hi Sorry to bring up such an old post, but I've a similar situation that I could really use some advice on please...
And sorry it's going to be a bit long but I'll try to preempt your questions with some details.

Background:

2nd (lodgers) bedroom currently houses the hot water cylinder and the really loud power shower pump.
Power shower pump only serves the main bedroom ensuite situate over the other side of the house.
Hot water cylinder feeds everywhere in the house (except elec shower in 'family bathroom - which has dedicated cold feed from tank above).
Hot water cylinder has an outlet for the power shower about 3/4 the way up from the bottom - meaning we cannot use all the hot water available to the tank. Main outlet is from the top as expected.

There are 2 Cold Water Tanks.
'New' Cold water tank that feeds the HWT is in the loft above, but that tank if physically located right over the other side of the house - in the loft over the main bedroom.
'Old' Cold water tank in the loft above the 2nd bedroom feeds the rest of the house and cold side of the power shower
New CWT is mounted on a shelf, so the bottom of the tank is about 45cms above the top of the joist (upper surface of joist)
Old CWT is mounted on the joists.


Ensuite has a circular rainfall head, 30cms across.
As it stands, we can turn the power shower on less than half and get a reasonable shower.
Half is nice, full is good. Doesn't take off your skin, but it's perfectly acceptable.

Pipework for the power shower drops from water tanks to pump on the floor, then rises, what 2.4 or 2.5m or so into the loft. Snakes across the loft about 7 or 8 m where it drops down the wall to the mixer valve, then back up the wall into the loft and across about 1m to the ceiling mounted head. The head is mounted on a 30cm long pipe.

Pipe work is 22mm into and out of the pump, up the wall across the loft and down to the mixer where it drops to 15mm from the mixer to the head.





So you can picture it all yeah?


We now want to replace the pump with a newer quieter model and relocate it to the loft above the ensuite.
We will need to pull the water from the hot cylinder, a distance of around 8m or so horizontally and about 1m vertically (Will be putting in a new tank too with the correct fitting at the top to give this shower its own feed)

I understand that power shower pumps work best as pushers, not pullers.
Also, located in the loft, it will be barely lower than the bottom level of the cold water, and at least 1m above the top of the hot tank.



Can you please advise me what kind of pump I need. Negative, positive etc?
if you are still reading, I thank you very much and will greatly appreciate any advice.

Also, if any traders are local to Gatwick that fancy coming over to quote that would be great too...

Cheers

Steve