Shower Pump

[camel307]

I fitted a Salamander shower pump under my bath. I have hot and cold water pipes coming up through the floorboards which used to connect straight to my bath mixer tap.

I changed this so a pump sits in between the pipes coming through the floor boards and the mixer tap. Everything was fine until I decidd to move the pump to the other side of the bath (as the a new sink restrcts access to the pump).

Since putting this extra pipe work in I have noticed that the pump attempts to kick in everytime i turn on the bathroom sink tap or the Kitchen tap. It hums for a split second and then stops immediately.

I assume this is because the flow is disturbed and therefore the pump tries to kick in but then stops when it realises there is not an opening.

Is this an issue? Does it need sorting and how can i sort (raise height of pump?) and will it effect the life of my pump????

THANKS

 

[Groovejet]

Maybe fitting non return valves to the pipework supplying every thing else besides the shower.
Or change all the pipework . Which is easier?

 

[camel307]

As anyone every experienced this before and if so what was the conclusion?

 

[camel307]

Maybe fitting non return valves to the pipework supplying every thing else besides the shower.
Or change all the pipework . Which is easier?

Fitting non return valves is something I have considered but i was thinking just to the pipes that supply the showerpump as it might? be backflow which is activating the pump.

I cant see how fitting NRVs on everything besides the shower will help??

 

[Groovejet]

Why wouldnt it be back flow from pipework elsewhere???
Like u said about the sink taps ,why not put valves on these and see what happens

 

[seco services]

Fitting non return valves is something I have considered but i was thinking just to the pipes that supply the showerpump

nrv should never be fitted before a pump.
the pump needs to vent back to the cylinder.

 

[Richard C]

Fitting non return valves is something I have considered but i was thinking just to the pipes that supply the showerpump as it might be backflow which is activating the pump.

Never fit NRV’s in the pump supply pipework; there are also maximum lengths you can run the supply pipes from the storage tank to the pump, exceed these & anything can happen; pumps are designed to push not pull which they don’t do very well at all.

I suggest you read Salamanders installation instructions before you go any further;

http://www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/Download/instructions.pdf

 

[camel307]

Why wouldnt it be back flow from pipework elsewhere???
Like u said about the sink taps ,why not put valves on these and see what happens

The bathroom sink is before the mixer tap in bath so cant see how NRV valve before these will help the problem?

I agree it will help downstairs kitchen tap activating pump? WIll try the kitchen taps and see what happens.

Thanks

 

[Technotim]

Richard C, has pointed out two important points too you never fit nrv's before pump, do not install pump too far from the cylinder. 2 meters for a 22mm pump 3 for a 15mm but the closer the better.

Supply pipes to pump should also be independent for pump.

What model is it?

 

[camel307]

It is the Salamander CT50+. I understand that the ideal way is to have an independent supply but besides the risk of having a cold shower if someone turns another tap on what is the issue with the way ihave done it?

I have spoke to various plumbers who advised me that the approach i have undertaken is the most sensible......

 

[Richard C]

I have spoke to various plumbers who advised me that the approach i have undertaken is the most sensible......

In my experience "Various Plumbers" don’t necessarily have a clue how to install pumped systems. I’m no longer entirely sure what your “undertaken approach” is, can you refresh all our memories?

 

[camel307]

For the fifth time.......

I have a bath with a shower mixer tap....are u following Richard C or have i lost u already?

I disconnected the pipe from the supply to the bath taps and added in a pump just beneath the bath, under the taps.

I have now relocated the pump to the other side of the bath for easier access. However, now when i use the bathroom sink tap and the kitchen sink tap the pump kicks in for a split second as it must sense a pressure drop. (yes they all run off the same pipe from the hW tank).

Before you criticise Richard C these plumbers who dont know how to install pumps are all very successful people who are so busy that they dont have time to frequent these forums unlike yourself so withhold your pathetic generalisms and speak only if you have valid contributions to make.

 

[iep]

Wow camel307, that's some pretty serious attitude from a guy looking for help.

What you still have not made clear is the distance from the cylinder to the pump and the gauge of pipework used.

You have also suggested that the pump shares pipework from the cylinder with other outlets. Can you clarify exactly which of these are tee'd off before and after the pump?

One issue with shared pipework (especially long lengths of pipework) is that when the pump is running, there can be negative pressure on any outlets that are tee'd off near the pump. In this case it is possible that when someone turns on one of these outlets while the pump is running, it will be much easier for the pump to suck air down through that outlet than it will be to pull water along the long length of pipe back to the hot/cold tanks.

This air will cause an airlock in the impellor which will prevent that side of the pump from operating correctly (or at all since the impellors don't work with air) and will gradually erode the impellor blades/bearings.

Worst case, it could even cause the cold side to air lock entirely and scold the person in the shower.

I was originally planning to install my pump exactly as you have described but after a lot of reading and speaking to salamander themselves, I concluded that I would end up with an unreliable system that might scold people in the shower.

Eventually, I fitted a dedicated hot and cold feed to my pump and it works fantastically. It was a pain in the arse to do (involved drilling holes through a 1m think solid stone wall) and took a whole weekend. However, I do now have a textbook system that should run reliably for years. And, if it doesn't, I have the benefit of Salamanders warranty which is voided where the pump is installed as you describe.

Sorry that I can't be more encouraging than that but badly installed pumps don't work well.

Cheers,

iep

 

[Richard C]

I didn’t criticise anyone in particular; as you say it was a generalisation but one which unfortunately often turns out to be true & so is hardly pathetic. If they are all very successful, how come they haven’t managed to sort out the problem for you. I was attempting to help you but with an attitude like that, I wont bother & truly hope no-one else does either; being such a sarcastic smart arse, sort it out yourself.

 

[Technotim]

Camel with the hump, Richard's questions are perfectly reasonable and I think an appology would be nice as he was only trying to assist.

The plumbers that you have spoken too obiously do not have the knowledge that Richard has.

For an explaination the flow switches on that pump are sensitive to approximatly 0.6 liters per min, having long pipe runs and other items running off of the pipe work that is not dedicated will when turned on and off send shock waves aroud your system, and disturb the flow switches, I realise in your mind you are thinking but I only moved it a bit, so believe it or not up to you mate!