soil pipe headache

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The waste pipe for my 1st foor toilet is blocked. I have previously had a plumber from another company clear it, but a couple days later it blocked up again so I suppose the cause of the block was farther down.

I've included a picture of the layout.


As noted, the horizontal pipe was cut into by the previous plumber, a trap installed, and a drain-jet used to remove blockage (lots of paper and poo was removed). However about 4 days later it was blocked up again. The toilet does drain very slowly, and the opening the trap shows that eventually no water or blockage remains in the horizontal pipe.


The shower and sink on the 1st floor do drain, albeit slower than normal, whether it is encountering the blockage or is just not receiving air to drain efficiently (if that makes sense) is hard to say?

The ground floor loo works perfectly.

All this points to a blockage in the vertical pipe just below the horizontal pipe junction (in my opinion.) We have strongly plunged and tried to use a 0.25 inch 21-foot drain snake (both from the toilet and the trap) but I am unable to succeed or even judge if / what it is encountering. I think it just winds up coiling on itself. We have tried a bottle of concentrated drain cleaner and baking soda and vinegar to no effect.

Given these facts, what is the best course of action? My instinct is to simply cut open the vertical pipe and replace the area in case something is lodged in there. Because the water does drain away it would seem a clean thing to cut into, and I'm not keep to blast it with a drain jet again and make a new giant mess, especially if there is something lodged in there that would further catch paper.

So uh.. how hard is it to cut open pipe and put new pipe that won't leak? Pimlico wants £170 just to show up. And then who knows. I've already spent £250 on the last guy. The cost of this is starting to really add up.
 
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Given that the bath and basin drain slowly then I would suggest that the blockage is at or further down the vertical pipe from the bath socket boss.

Have you tried cleaning up the vertical pipe from the rodding access at the bottom of the stack? Your plumber could also remove the 40mm bath/sink waste from the boss if there's enough free play or cut a new access and rod via that too then cap it.

Worst case is pulling the stack apart at the socket, if it's push fit.
 
Have you tried cleaning up the vertical pipe from the rodding access at the bottom of the stack? Your plumber could also remove the 40mm bath/sink waste from the boss if there's enough free play or cut a new access and rod via that too then cap it.
.

Hm, that's a tool I haven't looked into. Could a rod reach all the way up there from the bottom of the stack, wouldn't I have to get around the 90degree corner? Could I do this myself?

Otherwise, yeah I suppose he could cut another hole in there. Do all those pieces I have stacked on each other right at the middle juncture look like they'd cause friction to things going down? I don't knwo what they look like form the inside.

The thing is, the bath drains slowly, but still much much faster than the toilet drains, so that's why I fell maybe the bath isn't quite as clogged as the main soil pipe.
 
I would turn up with a £30 set of drain rods . And a ladder on me crossbar ;) get up the ladder and pull apart the vertical pipe out of the top of the branch from the WC and rod Downwards from there . If that cleared it I would be very happy with £150 cash
 
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I would turn up with a £30 set of drain rods . And a ladder on me crossbar ;) get up the ladder and pull apart the vertical pipe out of the top of the branch from the WC and rod Downwards from there . If that cleared it I would be very happy with £150 cash

that's where I'd have started too.. but I assumed I'd have to saw a chunk and then bridge it. When you say "pull apart", are they not glued or something? or is it really just sitting on the pipe below?
 
That would be the only issue with that approach, if the top section is solvent weld.
The lower sections (darker grey) certainly look like push fit, not sure if the ones higher up are though. Lighter grey, from the section just below the 92.5 Deg toilet branch upwards.
Up a ladder and give them a twist and see which joints move.
 
Dont move or cut into anything unless its a last resort - so far you have a blockage (s) - movement might create leaks.

I guess that the "trap" that you refer to is a Strap On Pipe Boss with a cap or a plug?

Why not approach this from a ladder at the top of the soil pipe vent - send your rods or snake down the soil pipe to clear the vertical blockage you claim is there.
Or, lift the WC to one side, & work through the closet bend

Then, if necessary, work thro the boss to clear any horizontal WC pipe blockage?

Running, & flushing all 1st floor fixtures should clear any sludge.

Perhaps, now its running freely, remove the bathroom waste from the boss socket and examine the cut hole in the soil pipe - they are sometimes left ragged and paper can catch on them.

FWIW: the brick arch over the door is dropping to the LH.
Plus, you have what looks like a boiler terminal tight to the pipework.
 
Is the ground floor WC connected to that stack? First thing I'd do is (standing to one side!) open that rodding eye at the base of the stack and see whats there. If it's clear, flush the upstairs loo and see if it flies out of the (now open) hole. If so problem could well be underground. Unusual, though not unheard of, for the vertical section to block.
 
Is the ground floor WC connected to that stack? First thing I'd do is (standing to one side!) open that rodding eye at the base of the stack and see whats there. If it's clear, flush the upstairs loo and see if it flies out of the (now open) hole. If so problem could well be underground. Unusual, though not unheard of, for the vertical section to block.

Yes, the ground floor toilet is directly behind the wall next to the door, and it flushes perfectly, so I've ruled out underground blockage. What's puzzling to me is that although the 1st floor toilet drains very, very slowly now (like, took three days to drain out) the bath continues to drain (slower than usual, but still just matter of two minutes after two showers). To me that means the blockage is almost airtight to the toilet, but maybe just overlapping the bath drain a little bit to slow it down.

I've opened that rodding eye already if I had a tool to get up in there, but my snake is flimsy (0.25 inch) and would just coil on itself and rods, I would think, couldn't get up the bend high enough to make a difference.

Ree mentioned going down the vent, but that's all the way up at the roof, I can't get up there, well beyond the range of my ladder. If the vent isn't glued to the junction at the 1st floor, I'll see if I can lift that tonight, but I'm guessing the straps to the wall will make it tricky even if it does come free, especially in the dark... otherwise, well, I have a plumber coming saturday morning who will fix it one way or another... a nice chap who's always very busy since he doesn't charge me the £170 fee Pimlico does just to show up let alone get the work done. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
 
As a DIY'er you might be taking a risk working off a ladder in the dark attempting to awkwardly lift the vent portion of a soil stack.
Will your ladder be tied in?
How secure are the upper vent pipe clips - the whole lot could topple in worst case?
 
looking at your pic I'd be checking that the inch and a half waste pipe from the bath and sink hasn't been pushed too far in.
 
Does the ground floor WC join into the back of that stack or does it go straight underground? Not entirely impossible for the stack and ground floor WC to be on separate drains initially.

Rods should be ok going up the pipe, that's what the rodding eye was fitted for! If there is anything stuck up there you want to be pulling it down and out, not pushing it from above and possibly losing it into the drain where it could then cause another problem......
 
No its not. The rodding eye was not fitted for rodding up the pipe. Its not a directional fitting. Are you re-inventing the book? At least the mental book that all the drain cleaning guys i've worked with used.

First rule of drain cleaning is "Always go down" - whether its rods, snakes, machines or jetting - the rule is to go from high to low. Its obviously not always possible or desirable for a variety of reasons but thats the rule.

If circumstances had been such - your suggestion to: "open that rodding eye" could have resulted in a stack of sewage spread across a residential backyard.

All mechanical devices rods, cables etc. have hooks for retrieving suitable blockage items - in my limited experience, cutters are used to shred any difficult, non-retrievable blockages eg.. roots or solidified gunk, which are then persuaded downstream.
 
The rodding eye was fitted to allow access to the pipe, there's no rules on which direction you have to rod in! Downstream is preferable but not always possible or practical. If the pipe is clear, at and below the rodding eye then clearly the problem is above. Id rather be trying to hook whatever is up there and pull it down and out, than shove it from above and risk losing it underground where it could cause further grief!

Opening the rodding eye could have resulted in a mess, that's why I said stand clear! However, opening it would then help the OP to ascertain if the blockage is above or below that point and clarify the situation slightly. It's outside, any mess can be hosed down afterwards in need be. Also better than trying to dismantle a stack working from a ladder.....

I've cleared plenty of sewers, sometimes mess is unavoidable. You cannot make an ommlette without breaking a few eggs. :cry:
 
looking at your pic I'd be checking that the inch and a half waste pipe from the bath and sink hasn't been pushed too far in.

I am of the same opinion, it seems someone may have used a far too long the bath drain pipe and it is pushed in all the way across blocking both the toilet flow and bath flow itself is reduced, this is where I would start and will be much safer than poking a clearing rod from the stack down.
 

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