Storm Drain

[nickyb]

I have attached another photo, taken from the bottom of the garden just before i dug down enough to find the pipe.

As you can see its fairly far away from the house and at a much lower level.

There are houses to the right / left of mine and from what i understand the rain water from 10+ houses runs at the bottoms of the gardens, meets in my garden then runs under a bypass behind my house (so behind me on the photo taken is a fence / small banking then a bypass)

Untitled

• nickyb
• 30 Mar 2011
• 1

 

[RedHerring2]

Have you uncovered the end, in the garden, yet? In which case look what's happening when it is/has been raining.
Try adding a dye in to the rainwater drains at source. Powdered water based paint may suffice. There are proprietary dyes available. Even a hose pipe during non-rainy times may give an indication.

Is this pipe running towards the house? If so, it's some attempt to move water away from the house, but from where, and how many properties, only you can discover. Don't forget, more than one property and it's not sole responsibility. Even if it's from one downpipe on a pair of semi's.
It certainly looks as though all the other property/gardens/roads are somewhat higher.

If, however, it's running away from the house, it's some attempt at draining water down the embankment and across the road, I would guess.

Incidentally, I suspect a skilled mini-digger driver could access your back garden, if necessary.

 

[nickyb]

well its been raining all day today so i am going to have a look when i get home and see if the hole is starting to fill or see if there is water running through the pipe.
Im guessing is has to be taking water away (rain water) as is does not get wet down there until we have rain (and being in wales we get our fair share)

I have a document in the house showing the water directions etc.. from when we purchased, ill take a photo of this and post it tomorrow.
The only problem is im sure the lines are meant to be colour coded (the doc i received is black and white) so may not be a great help,

 

[RedHerring2]

The drains layout diagram will certainly help a great deal. I'm sure the more experienced posters will be able to understand it.

This post really ought to be in the Building Forum, as it's better suited there.

I'll ask the Mods to move it. They may not do so my request as you're the OP. In which case, you'll need to ask them.

 

[nickyb]

thanks RedHerring2, if they wont move it could you let me know how to request this and i will have a go. Thanks

 

[RedHerring2]

Just click on "Alert Moderators" diagonally down to the right. Select "Other" and request them to move it to Building.

 

[RedHerring2]

Wow! Was that fast?

 

[nickyb]

not bad at all, i will get that pic uploaded tomorrow

 

[RedHerring2]

Another couple of possibly relevant bits of information:
When was the bypas constructed?
How close to the boundary fence (between you and the bypass) does this pipe terminate? Could it have continued down the embankment at one time, prior to the embankment being built?
What was the land used for before it was a bypass?
Is the embankment higher than the end of this pipe? (I'm assuming it slopes away from your property)

 

[nickyb]

The bypas has been then for as long as i can remember 25 years+ i do not know when this was built. (i would guess its not been there as long as the house has or it would have been a much narrower road anyway)
Originaly there would have been trees / forestry there, im assuming the water runs under this to an industrial est a bit further along the road (i say this as i have heard this floods now and again)

The garden is higher than the bypass so the banking slopes away down to the road (arround 5-8 meters from my fence)

 

[RedHerring2]

OK.
See what the diagram throws up, the monitoring of the outflow from the pipe and possibly further investigation with dye/hose pipe in rain water drains.

I suspect it was a pathetic attempt at a soakaway, possibly just your property/patio area, or possibly other properties as well.

I suspect the easiest course of action is going to be a properly constructed soakaway, or a pond/wetland area. You seem to have no problem with water draining away. It just needs a little time, which is what a proper soakway will do.
It's possible that the only material you will need to purchase is a sheet of geotex material. Probably about £25, and some more digging/shovelling.

This will solve the problem if it's just the water from that pipe. If, however, your neighbours surface water is flowing across the bottom of the gardens, 'cos their soakaways are minimal or blocked, that's another story.
See this link: http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/facts/98-015.htm

Soakaways do block up over time. Basically they're holes filled with rubble. If no geotex material is used to prevent soil filtering into the holes between the rubble, hey presto, a blocked soakaway.

An excellent link to construction of a soakaway:
http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain08.html

 

[nickyb]

I managed to find the layout copys last night, see below:
im sure this will help:-

Untitled

• nickyb
• 31 Mar 2011
• 1

Untitled

• nickyb
• 31 Mar 2011
• 1

 

[RedHerring2]

Wow! That does illustrate a lot, if the pipe that you have uncovered is the combined drain.

It would be interesting to see what others say about this. Some may not log on until this evening.

First off, and everything I say is assuming that we are talking about the correct pipe, 'cos I do have some doubts, this is a private sewer and the responsibility of all users to maintain it, and that's a lot of properties. Just 'cos it's in your garden does not make you solely, or even majorly responsible.
You could even have a strong case against all your neighbours for not maintaining it when they suspected it was broken.

If that is the combined drain pipe, I would have suspected some foul smell at the bottom of your garden. Also, it seems woefully shallow depth and diameter for that kind of drain.

The kind of test that I would suspect a professional to undertake is identifying where the drains run to, especially yours and your neighbour to your left, as seen on the plan. This would probably be done with dye and checked at the end of the pipe that you found and at the combined chamber indicated further down the embankment.

It also appears that the bypass road was not constructed at the time of drawing up the plans. Is that correct? Although I doubt it would have impacted on the drains layout as this plan was obviously available.

 

[nickyb]

I do not think this is connected to the waste, as you can see on the map it shows a clear / white triangle i opened this and could see water passing through when i looked at the blue pipe i had found there was nothing passing through this pipe.

My complete guess is that the pipes join somwhere after the blockage or broken pipe.....

Does this sound possible?

 

[RedHerring2]

My guess is that this pipe is not connected to the main drains at all.

Have you monitored what's coming out of the end?

It's a combined sewer system that you and your neighbours have, that means all foul water and surface/storm/rain water all goes down the same system. If there was a blockage/leakage/overflow into your garden the smell would be horriffic by now and you'd have a deluge. It would be overflowing down the embankment.

Dare I say it, but this plan is a red herring. Well, it's a bit confusing 'cos I suspect that the real drains are deeper and larger. (And why an inspection chamber was not incorporated at the four way junction in your garden, only the installer knows).This isn't the kind of pipe that would have been used in the system.

I suspect that it was an attempt at a soakaway, possibly from your patio or similar that is now useless.
Also, I suspect that 'cos of the lie of the land all your neighbours garden rainfall is finding its way to the bottom of your garden.
Now if they had done something to collect/divert the rain to your garden you could investigate the legal options. But, 'cos I suspect it's just the lie of the land that means its your garden that's the lowest, and your neighbours haven't done anything, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. (Although they might have raised their garden levels which could be construed as a nuisance, but only if it was lower than yours to start with.)

I suggest that you follow this pipe and either lift it out, or, the other end may give you a clue to its purpose, if it has one, in which case it is, as I suspect, a defunct soakaway, then reinstate the soakaway.

After identifying the purpose and reinstating the soakaway, or removing the pipe completely, then monitor the situation.
I suspect that it won't make an iota of difference. In which case you're faced with a different kind of problem that will need a different approach, more along the lines of landscaping.

But if you're really convinced that the drain is blocked/broken then I suspect it really is a professional that you need to reassure you or identify the problem, because of: a) the scarcity of access chambers and b) the size and depth of the real drains.