Supply and fit price for gas fire and surround?

[Longshanks]

Hi

We're having:

Valor Dream Slimline Convector Gas fire

bemodern Kansas surround in American Walnut with pearl marble hearth

These are being bought as separate items by an installer who will then fit them. They will replace a 30 year old gas fire in a house wth a pre fabricated flue.

The parts cost about £900 and the installer says the job will take about a day.

He's quoted £1825 in total. Does that seem reasonable or does it depend?????

Many thanks

 

[Longshanks]

Sorry

Forgot to add that n chasing out required as surround will cover existing supply pipe.

Hope that helps.

 

[FiremanT]

Sorry

Forgot to add that n chasing out required as surround will cover existing supply pipe.

Hope that helps.

Price for stuff seems on the low side. Are you sure it is EXACTLY £900, or a ladies "about £900", which is normally £999.99! Why is he sourcing, has he given you a price for the goods, or are you extrapolating from t'internet? I sell and fit fireplaces, and expect to make profit on the product, as well as my time. The supplying installer also has warranty responsibilities.

Has he already inspected the flue in the loft - is there any work/materials needed there?


If he DEFINITELY is charging £925 for a days work, then I would say he is entitled to quote what he wants. You, equally, are free to get another one.

 

[Longshanks]

Price includes discount he gets from Plumbcentre which he's passing on to us. He's looked at flue but not been in loft. Just thought a grand was a bit heavy for labour, all things being considered.

 

[Tibbot]

Just thought a grand was a bit heavy for labour, all things being considered.

All things being considered? I suggest no things being considered. Are you supplying him with a vehicle, equipment, training and all other expenses as well as a regular supply of employment? because if not it's not a grand for labour is it?

If I bake and sell bread and make enough for what you'd consider a day's pay by mid morning. Does that mean I have to give loaves away for the rest of that day?

 

[FiremanT]

Just thought a grand was a bit heavy for labour, all things being considered.

If I bake and sell bread and make enough for what you'd consider a day's pay by mid morning. Does that mean I have to give loaves away for the rest of that day?

I think you wlll find most bakers don;t earn over £900 a day!

The installer is nuts giving away his discount then expecting over £900 a day.

OP: He must be mad (or inexperienced) to buy all the kit without climbing on the loft to check.
I have come across countless flues in loft which are not to standard, I have "lost" quite a few jobs as I have had to quite extra for remedial s, some of which made the job untenable price wise.
You will probably find that a bricks and mortar retailer would be less for labour, and more experienced, but you will pay more for the gear.

 

[Tibbot]

think wlll find most bakers don;t earn over £900 a day!
.

My point is small business needs a level of income to be viable. No one looks at what a shop or market stall cashes up at closing time as the proprieter's daily wage.

 

[Longshanks]

Just thought a grand was a bit heavy for labour, all things being considered.

All things being considered? I suggest no things being considered. Are you supplying him with a vehicle, equipment, training and all other expenses as well as a regular supply of employment? because if not it's not a grand for labour is it?

If I bake and sell bread and make enough for what you'd consider a day's pay by mid morning. Does that mean I have to give loaves away for the rest of that day?

Yes, I would expect the loaves and fishes to be given away in that scenario since I would otherwise be paying for his kids private school fees and his villa in Barbados.

This response is nowt more than the establishment closing ranks. I provided sufficient detail on product and situation to negate this sort of response.

The items are readily available for well under a grand so it's evident now that the "discount" is being absorbed by hefty labour costs.

Thanks

 

[Tibbot]

Fit it yourself then. Next time try a price comparison site. This one's meant for plumbing & heating.

 

[FiremanT]

Just thought a grand was a bit heavy for labour, all things being considered.

Yes, I would expect the loaves and fishes to be given away in that scenario since I would otherwise be paying for his kids private school fees and his villa in Barbados.


The items are readily available for well under a grand so it's evident now that the "discount" is being absorbed by hefty labour costs.

Thanks

Tibbot is correct in that if you accept his quote, then you should pay. With regard to the fish and loaves: A business either succeeds or fails. If it fails, none of the customers rally round to support the failed businessman, why should he limit his profit potential. Your response has removed any respect I had for you. On my last post, I wrote a comment about cost comparison sites, but deleted it, as it seemed a bit crass. I should have left it in.

I (IIRC) gave quite a lot of advice to you a few weeks ago, which you seem to have ignored (lost flue work etc). I, personally, think £925 is a lot for the job, but I avoid giving rates here. I also think both of you are heading for trouble - your RGI with lack of experience and common sense, and you for your price sensitivity.

His £925 will include all the time investigating costs, putting up with carp Plumb Center service - he is at risk if you hate the individual nature of the marble pattern . There will be a large chance of chips on the edge of the marble (if it is the crystalline material I am thinking of), which will entail a return of the product and a possibly a lost days work. All of which is why he is an idiot for not making a profit on materials supplied. So, yes, he is probably transferring the normal profit element to labour.

If this is such a big deal, why don't YOU buy the kit and punt around for a better price.?

 

[Agile]

I have a vision of the precast block flue going straight up and not passing through any significant part of the loft.

This has demonstrated the problems of quoting the price of expensive items.

Because customers can look up prices and often buy at similar or lower prices than the installer, showing a hefty mark up makes you look like a profiteer and upsets some customers.

Like the installer here, I supply items at the cost and that can make the installation price seem high. But I feel its more transparent and at least it prevents anyone saying that I am overcharging them.

But fitting fires and surrounds is a potentially hazardous task as its easy to drop, scratch or damage heavy marble parts.

Sometimes I get calls for the price of fitting a hand basin. For a cheap B&Q basin about £80 might be appropriate as a replacement. I was suspicious of one caller and it turned out it was an insurance job and the basin was an £800 one to replace part of a discontinued suite. I was not going to risk damaging an expensive basin for a job value of £80.

So while the price here may at first seem high, I suspect he has already spent about a day visiting you, getting prices from suppliers etc. and I would be surprised if he can complete all the work in one day unless everything goes very smoothly.

Tony

 

[Longshanks]

Fit it yourself then. Next time try a price comparison site. This one's meant for plumbing & heating.

I bet your order book is full with your customer service ethos

 

[Longshanks]

I have a vision of the precast block flue going straight up and not passing through any significant part of the loft.

This has demonstrated the problems of quoting the price of expensive items.

Because customers can look up prices and often buy at similar or lower prices than the installer, showing a hefty mark up makes you look like a profiteer and upsets some customers.

Like the installer here, I supply items at the cost and that can make the installation price seem high. But I feel its more transparent and at least it prevents anyone saying that I am overcharging them.

But fitting fires and surrounds is a potentially hazardous task as its easy to drop, scratch or damage heavy marble parts.

Sometimes I get calls for the price of fitting a hand basin. For a cheap B&Q basin about £80 might be appropriate as a replacement. I was suspicious of one caller and it turned out it was an insurance job and the basin was an £800 one to replace part of a discontinued suite. I was not going to risk damaging an expensive basin for a job value of £80.

So while the price here may at first seem high, I suspect he has already spent about a day visiting you, getting prices from suppliers etc. and I would be surprised if he can complete all the work in one day unless everything goes very smoothly.

Tony

Thanks for helpful response. I'll ignore the gratuitous comments as I know when raw nerves have been hit re closing ranks etc so more constructive to move on.

I'm not trying to be beastly to this guy. I do know he works Mon -Friday as an employee and doing this job at weekend so will not incur the usual overheads referred to.

I'm also intrigued by the reference to the extent to which the flue is in the loft. I can provide pictures but it emerges about halfway up inside of loft wall and then visible until it disappears into roof.

Is there a suggestion that our pre fabricated flue (1981 Wimpey house) is somehow vastly different or more complex than others?

Ta

 

[Tibbot]

I do know he works Mon -Friday as an employee and doing this job at weekend so will not incur the usual overheads referred to.

You should have disclosed that information first because it changes things. Unless carrying his own registration, or doing it for the firm, the work is illegal, uninsured and you are a willing accessory. I wouldn't ask for any more help, seems like you deserve each other.

 

[FiremanT]

I do know he works Mon -Friday as an employee and doing this job at weekend so will not incur the usual overheads referred to.

You should have disclosed that information first because it changes things. Unless carrying his own registration, or doing it for the firm, the work is illegal, uninsured and you are a willing accessory. I wouldn't ask for any more help, seems like you deserve each other.

My thoughts entirely.

Having slagged us off, I am not sure you will receive any further guidance. I am not interested in commenting on any pics you may put up. Suffice to say, if this your guy that comes recommended (from your posts some weeks ago), he leaves a lot to be desired. You seem to have great confidence in his skills, yet you are here. Weird. HE should be checking the flue. If he knows what to look for.

Tony: survey an arrangement time not included, that job is easily completed in a short day. (Assuming you are not talking about a 70 year old client who has heavy old furniture and carpets to be moved and refitted!)