The Man Cave : A garden office (aka fancy shed)

[rmwebs]

Hi all,

I'm a self-employed app developer and am basically working out of a bedroom right now. Its by no means ideal, and distractions are aplenty. So I've decided that I need to get a work space set up away from family distractions.

I've done some research and have decided that the best (and most affordable) way of doing this is to do a garden office, using a Log-Cabin style shed.

Initially I was planning on going to one of the garden office companies that come in and do everything for you, but I just simply cant afford that right now. So after some thinking I think I could probably undertake it all by myself, and then get a sparky in to do the all the wiring (and the mains connection).

I really just wanted to check and share some ideas/thoughts about how it should be done.

I'd start with a log-cabin style shed, something like a BillyOh Devon (http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk/Log-Cabins/BillyOh-Devon-Log-Cabin)

Now, here's where it gets...odd. The site shows the shed..sorry, log cabin constructed and capable of housing without any interior insulation. Surely this cant be right?

I was thinking more along the lines of buying a BillyOh Devon, and then adding a waterproof layer inside (Celotex if I'm not mistaken?) followed by wall-battens, then get the wiring put in, followed by insulation and then plasterboard. The same would apply to the roof. Is this pretty much correct? My only concern is ventilation and condensation. While I dont want condensation, I dont particularly want a hole on the wall letting cold air in over winter.

For the floor, I was planning to use a raised base, lay the log cabin floor, then place beams and insulation with standard chipboard on top, followed by an underfloor heating mat system (electric ones) and laminate floor. The only issue I've got here is the door may be too low. I'd have to check but if its wooden then I can just take a chunk off, but if its a plastic/upvc one then I assume raising it would be the only option.

I've seen others have done all this and the outcome is a really nice looking room, which stays cool in summer and retains the heat in winter.

The biggest things I need to know is about the insulation and damp proofing.

I should probably point out that I'm pretty new to DIY (yes, I'm that computer guy!) however feel pretty confident that I can do it.

So yeah...um, thats about it! Please feel free to pick apart my plans and tell me where I'm going stupidly wrong!

Cheers

Rick

 

[mattylad]

When I was 18 I was into amatuer radio, short wave radio and CB etc.
My parents did not want it all in the house so I got an 8x6 shed.
However, having previously tried the garage I knew full well that it would be blooming freezing in winter.

So when the shed arrived I first treated it inside & out, then lined the inside with plastic sheeting, then put insulation in every gap and then lined it with chipboard.

I had wired up some sockets etc, lighting and an alarm and beefed up the locking.

It was a lot better than the garage, with a simple heater it was lovely and warm.

What your looking at is simply a shed, IMO it cannot be called anything else (cept maybe a summerhouse). so yes, insulate the floor underneath the floorboards, line & insulate the walls & roof.

Fit ventilation, there must be some that you can close when your in there. As for electric underfloor heating - wont that be costly to run?

Don't forget to get stronger fittings for the doors, big locks and not to forget the beer cooler and the bar

 

[solarsecurity]

Good luck.

All I will say is plan twice fit once. You don't want to find that you have to remove or damage anything you have fitted beacuse you forgot something.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[flameport]

The site shows the shed..sorry, log cabin constructed and capable of housing without any interior insulation. Surely this cant be right?

No, it isn't right. Thiose pictures are selling a fantasy.
In reality, such a shack will be freezing in winter and boiling hot in summer. There might be a week or two during the year when you can actually use it, assuming you clean out all the mould and other mess first.

I was thinking more along the lines of buying a BillyOh Devon, and then adding a waterproof layer inside (Celotex if I'm not mistaken?) followed by wall-battens, then get the wiring put in, followed by insulation and then plasterboard. The same would apply to the roof.
...
For the floor, I was planning to use a raised base, lay the log cabin floor, then place beams and insulation with standard chipboard on top, followed by an underfloor heating mat system (electric ones) and laminate floor. The only issue I've got here is the door may be too low. I'd have to check but if its wooden then I can just take a chunk off, but if its a plastic/upvc one then I assume raising it would be the only option.

By the time you have done all that, you might as well buy a load of 2x4 studwork timbers and construct the walls yourself, therefore not needing the expensive 'log cabin' at all.
If you really want the outside to look like the picture, then clad the outside in T&G boards. Or use something more suitable.

All of these 'log cabin' things are flimsy and overpriced. You are basically buying a stack of sticks, which when assembled are not dimensionally stable (they expand/contract with changes in temperature and humidity), have nothing but gravity to close up the gaps between the boards, the doors and windows are single glazed with no weather seals, and the roof is usually made of rabbit hutch covering at best.
Then there are the problems of no gutters or downpipes, virtually no floor clearance for underfloor ventilation, no security at all, etc.

 

[rmwebs]

Thanks for your responses chaps.

@flameport - Ideally I would like to do a complete custom build, but I really wouldn't be confident enough to do that. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I certainly wouldn't be up to doing any drawn plans

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Now's the time to learn then, there are hundreds of threads on the site about people doing a home build insulated home office in the back garden. Otherwise just start one up. It will be cheaper and better than anything you can buy for the same cash. Flamebreath is right, the sheds you buy off the shelf are a load of crap, with some careful planning I reckon it wouldn't cost a lot more to end up with a self built well insulated garden office for not much more than the price of the basic sheds you are looking at!

 

[rmwebs]

I really dont think building one myself will be an option. I just dont feel confident that I'd be able to do it. I'd feel much more comfortable building inside an existing structure.

I can guarantee I'd cock it up

I also couldn't really find any decent plans around. On the forum only a handful of threads exists for people who have actually built one from scratch, none of them have any real detail, just that it had been done.

So long as I know I'm getting the insulation and damp-proofing right I'll be happy. My biggest worry is the ventilation problem. If anyone has any additional advice about this part I'd be most grateful.

 

[1john]

Knocking up a frame from 4x2 is not going to be any more difficult that putting a shed together. As stated before these sheds rely on gravity to keep them locked together, then shrink and expand at large rates due to their design and are not ideal imo for converting into insulated rooms.

A 4x2 frame with a membrane and OSB inside, perhaps plasterboarded over, is not much more difficult or time consuming compared with what you plan to do inside the cabin. You can insulate between the studs and clad the outside in feather edge, t&g or anything else you fancy, a friend of mine has a nice large shed which he clad in timber with a curved profile so it looks like logs.

You say you cannot draw plans but if you have a pencil and paper (or CAD) then you can sketch up proposed plans and post them on here, people will either agree, suggest ammendments or tear it to bits, wither way you will learn something.

Even buying some tools I think youll spend far less on building a far superior shed this way.

 

[mattylad]

I agree 100% with the above, try and find old episodes of tommy walshes workshop, he showed how easy it all is.

If he can do it then anyone can lol.

The main tool layout will be for a chop saw/circular saw, or you can hire one. It only needs to last long enough to do the one job.

And the best thing about doing it yourself is its purpose built, you get struts where you want them, window where you want it etc and its going to be a heck of a lot stronger.

 

[1john]

My thinking is that a cordless drill and or impact driver and a chop saw would be ample. Of course you could get a framing nailer instead but if a newbie is building then if it's screwed together then it can be disassembled part way if theres an error. With some careful ebaying you should get some nice branded pre loved tools for £200 to £300 quite easily.

Do it, you'll love it and be happier with the outcome!!

 

[rmwebs]

Ahh crap, you're making me want to attempt it now

I've got myself a pack of shed plans so will see if I can come up with some form of plan.

Will it be ok to post it here once done as I'll no doubt screw something up

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Of course.

 

[mattylad]

Heck I demand it! lol

I want to see some shed plans....

Go for it, spend time planning - plenty of it - think of all situations, power, insulation, the way the sun passes overhead, light glare on the monitor, where to hang your coat etc. Before getting the tools out.

 

[OvineLoving]

At risk of incurring the wrath of everyone above I'm in the same boat as you and feel your pain. My wife is an artist and is currently using the dining room (less than ideal) and, like you, I'm not sufficiently confident to build absolutely from scratch.

So we have a BillyOh Devon (2.5*4.5) sat in the garage and I finished doing the slab/brickwork/steps yesterday. Next week (12th - 20th) we'll be building the garden office, battening the inside, insulating, electrics, etc.

Things I've learnt to date:

# Expansion (as mentioned above) can be a big issue. I've concocted a solution using sliding brackets that has met with general approval but I've not built it yet.

# The bulk of your cost won't lie in the outside structure. With me doing all the labour we've ended up with:
~ £750 to clear old shed and asbestos.
~ £850 on groundworks (hardcore, concrete, bricks for retaining)
~ £450 on external finishes (paint, roofing shingles, underlay)
~ £500 on internal battening, insulation (foil-faced PIR) and boarding
~ £2200 on the 'log cabin' (35mm walls, dg windows, 19mm floor/ceiling)
~ £350 on the electrician (includes supply and fit of new consumer unit)
~ £200 on misc internal bit and bobs (socket facings etc)
~ Grand total of £5300!

There are areas of the above where we've added cost in exchange for what we want/need. You may not have the cost to remove an old shed, you could roof with felt and use woodstain rather than paint, your groundworks could well be cheaper, you may not need a new consumer unit.

I roughly costed a 'from scratch' vs the above and ended up about £800 cheaper (15%) but hadn't included in that the hire/purchase of tools. There are bound to be some incidental costs I've missed but it feels fair. My current view is that if I do it again I'll build from scratch but I needed to have done this first to get the confidence. The main deciding factor will be whether the finish I get on the final product matches the level I want.

I'll post some photos and let you know how it goes.

C

 

[rmwebs]

Thanks for the great post OvineLoving!

I did try and cme up with some plans, and think about how I was going to do it, but realistically, there's no way in hell I could build it from scratch, at least not without having ago at doing a self-conversion, which is what I'm now doing.

I was going to go for the same Billyoh Devon, but I found that TigerSheds have a sale on till May 17th and have a rather nice 8x10 log cabin which I can get with double glazing, 28mm wood, hexagonal slate tiles and an improved 5-level door lock (instead of 3-level) for £1605 including VAT and delivery. It'll also be a slightly better shape for my garden as I wanted the door on the narrower 8 foot end instead of on the 10 foot end, so works out pretty well.

I think I may be able to keep the costs relatively low too.

The base I'll be doing myself, with self-mix cement from the local Wickes. We've got some old paving slabs, and there is already a partial base there as we're removing a slightly smaller shed, so will basically just have to extend the existing shed base. My grandfather passed away last yea, however his garage has an almost new cement mixer in it wich I can use, in addition to a lot of other tools.

The shed...err..sorry, log cabin will be erected by myself.

For the inside I was going to simply encase the entire inside in a waterproof membrane stapled to the logs, and then put studwork up, filled with 50mm celotex/kingspan on the walls, and 100mm on the floor and ceiling, then put plasterboard up.

I've got a family friend who is an electrician, so will get him round for a quote after the shed is up and the wall studs are in place (before the insulation is added).

For the electrics I've got no idea how we're going to get power there. We've got a relatively standard/small sized garden, but the consumer unit is at the front of the house, and our house width covers the entire width of our land, so it has to go through the walls somewhere. The only way I can think of it working is to go through the wall, over the top of the kitchen cabinets, through another (brick) wall into the utility room, through a (stud) wall to the garage, where the mains power comes in. A messy job!!

Finally I plan on using laminate on the floor and will also bring a cat5e or cat6 network cable from the house. I could (and currently do) use homeplugs but I'd like to get a better speed than 200mbps to computers in the house.

Overall here's how I currently see the price working out:

Log cabin cost (Tiger Sheds 'The Javan' 8x10): £1605
Electricity (still need a quote for this): approx £500
Insulation: ~£600 (priced up with Wickes prices of Celotex 50mm and 100mm, may get it cheaper elsewhere)
Wood, Plasterboard and misc materials: £250
£2950 total.

The only thing I haven't priced up is the base as I'm still trying to find the best option.

I know I'll probably go a bit over this however, its always the way!

OvineLoving - I found a pretty decent post of someone who has done the same thing, and he's posted a few photos of the process, you may have already seen it, but here's the link just in case you were interested:

http://www.shedworking.co.uk/2008/01/how-to-build-your-own-garden-office.html

God knows how he did the whole thing for under £2500 tho!