To say, or not to say, that is the question

[SimonH2]

It's probably a bit cross-field, but most building related.
So from your office window, you can see people walking around on the roof (smooth corrugated sheet) of another building - it's peeing down with rain and more than a bit windy. People are carrying solar panels - so something like 4'x6' sails - in this wind, and one was observed tripping and falling down (on the roof).

You look hard, and can see nothing whatsoever of any safety equipment - no scaffolding, no netting, no lanyards, nothing to stop someone going ahhh..splat onto hard ground (at least 20' down from guttering level).

OK, in this example it was people installing solar panels, but how often do we see people wandering around on roofs with few, or no, safety measures ?

So, do you heed the words of Don Merrel's I Chose to Look The Other Way and speak up, or do you heed those that tell you not to interfere ? If you do decide to speak up, who do you contact ?

I'll say what I did or didn't do later - I'm interested to see what others think.

 

[bernardgreen]

people installing solar panels

Provided there was no risk to third parties then I would say they made the choice to go up there.

But if there was a risk to third parties then I would "interfere". A few weeks ago roofers were on a roof where anything they let slip would have fallen onto the pavement where pedestrians were walking. No one from the roofing company was on the ground divert pedesatrins pedestrians away from the danger area. Someone must have reported it as work ceased until pedestrian barriers were brought to the site.

 

[JohnD]

I would also take some photos in case it was disputed or denied.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why haven't you got contacting HSE as an option?

 

[phatboy]

Absolutely report it. Some of the people up there are probably under instruction from a manager who doesn't care. The same manager will also try to dodge any resposibility for serious injury to his employee, who is scared to say they think it's unsafe, to avoid losing their job.

 

[^woody^]

There are too many people all too ready to stick their noses into other peoples jobs nowadays. These nosey gits are not really bothered about the act, other than they want to judge and throw in their little opinion.

A tweet, an email and photo are all too easily sent, so everyone wants to take part. If it was not so easy, no-one would be remotely interested in getting involved.

Yes I know the irony of this post.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Just because something 'looks dangerous' to you as an observer, does not make it so. If those workmen have deemed themselves competent enough to walk about on a roof unprotected, then they may well be so, and as a curtain twitcher you are not qualified to intervene in their personal responsibility. If you insist on 'absolute safety' from hazards real or perceived, then where do you draw the line?..

 

[JohnD]

A "curtain twitcher" does not have the power to stop people putting themselves at risk. Neither does a "decent citizen" if Gerry recognises the existence of such a person.

IME it is enough to notify whoever is responsible. If the twitcher is wrong he will be ignored or put right.

However, if the activity is dangerous or unlawful, the last thing a site manager wants is to have his feeble "I didn't know" excuse taken away.

 

[morg]

 

[SimonH2]

Why haven't you got contacting HSE as an option?

Doesn't that get included in either of the Yes options ?

I wasn't the only one to notice and comment on the activity. There were quite a few people going in and out with a number of opinions on what we could see.
One person pointed out that the workers probably had no insurance cover. They were almost certainly either :
a) Up there without safety gear even though they were provided with it and told to use it. That would mean they'd face an uphill struggle making a claim.
b) Up there with the boss's knowledge in which case the business would not be insured.

The person pointing this out specifically knew of a local incident of b) where the business had to be sold to pay compensation when the insurers refused to pay out on the grounds that the employer had failed to abide by the terms of the insurance policy.

So far, it's interesting to see the split between those with a "they were aware of the risks" attitude, and those who believe in a duty to protect people from themselves (or in some cases, from unscrupulous employers).

 

[chivers67]

If I saw someone working like this I'd be concerned for their well being. Also you'd have to question whoever is responsible for employing them to do the task whether they're exploiting said people to save money - especially if they have moved here from another country and do not know about Health and Safety issues here. The employees could be taking short cuts but it doesn't sound like it to me more they haven't been supplied the "safety tools". I feel a certain "Duty of care" to speak up personally

 

[footprints]

I might go down and move my car if it was a bit close!

 

[^woody^]

you'd have to question whoever is responsible for employing them

Why do we have to question that?

Do we need to go around questioning everyone's employment rights and contract? What does that have to do with anyone else?

Shop workers, warehouse workers, security guards, young doctors? Are all those our responsibility to make us contact their employers?

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

I once watched a load of chaps assembling a pre-cast concrete barn frame and roof. I knew the manager, so I asked him about the insurance status of these guys swinging around on ropes. He said he did not know as they were all self employed sub-contractors.
Frank

 

[SimonH2]

If I saw someone working like this I'd be concerned for their well being

Well I was, and so were others - some of them experienced engineers (there's a few engineering companies with offices in the same building).

I feel a certain "Duty of care" to speak up personally

Mee too - and that is what I did.

Not too many comments on who to call so far. I ended up phoning the company with the name on the building and asking for their H&S officer. The contractor had provided a risk assessment and method statement that said they would be using lanyards etc. He did initially say "they are contractors" with a tone of "nowt to do with us" - but when I sais "it's still your building" he agreed to go out and look.
Not long after that, the contractors were packing up and left with the job half done. From that we suspect that they didn't actually have the safety gear they said they'd be using. They weren't back today.

Interestingly, as I came through reception earlier, I got talking to the centre manager. She said she'd heard elsewhere in town (ie nothing related to our building) that the MD of the business who own and occupy the building was "furious" when he saw them and ordered them off the roof.

So clearly those responsible for H&S in both the business having the work done, and the contractors doing it, believed that the use of fall prevention gear was warranted.