UKIP and the NHS
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wkdhd
Paul Nuttall is the deputy leader of UKIP and here's some of the stuff he's said about the NHS on his website:
" I would argue that the very existence of the NHS stifles competition" [source]
" the NHS ... is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century" [source]
"I would like to congratulate the coalition government for bringing a whiff of privatisation into the beleaguered National Health Service" [source]
Nuttall also talks up a report written by a private health provider which suggests that the NHS should be carved open for even more privatisation (no conflicts of interest there then!) as "a sensible starting point for change".
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/02/ukip-assault-on-nhs-extinction
" I would argue that the very existence of the NHS stifles competition" [source]
" the NHS ... is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century" [source]
"I would like to congratulate the coalition government for bringing a whiff of privatisation into the beleaguered National Health Service" [source]
Nuttall also talks up a report written by a private health provider which suggests that the NHS should be carved open for even more privatisation (no conflicts of interest there then!) as "a sensible starting point for change".
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/02/ukip-assault-on-nhs-extinction
End of NHS = Does not mean end of free health care.
All of europe has free health care, most of europe has better health care (according to WHO rankings), none of them have an NHS.
The NHS isnt that bad, and does bring some advantages, but the point is that we want HEALTHCARE, the NHS is just a means to achieve an end, not the purpose itself.
Too many rush to the defense of the NHS whilst forgetting this.
Also the sky is blue.
All of europe has free health care, most of europe has better health care (according to WHO rankings), none of them have an NHS.
The NHS isnt that bad, and does bring some advantages, but the point is that we want HEALTHCARE, the NHS is just a means to achieve an end, not the purpose itself.
Too many rush to the defense of the NHS whilst forgetting this.
Also the sky is blue.
Does it have free health care ?
As I recall from my time in Germany private health insurance was compulsory , the premiums were deducted from my salary. I believe that is still the case though the actual rules and implementation may have changed.
Emergency treatment will be financed from state funds but ongoing care may be minimal on state funds or comprehensive when paid for from the private insurance company.
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wkdhd
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rn-countries-with-us-coming-last-9542833.html
The WHO ranking was in 2000, the NHS was still recovering from the Tories
Nobody has 'free' health care in any system, other than the really poor who won't earn enough to pay for it.
In europe the government pays your insurance if you are poor.
We pay National insurance from our wages, and taxes.
Well, we can sit here arguing over who's statistics suffer the least fiddling.
Or you can acknowledge the basic point, that the NHS is a means to an end, not the goal.
All of Europe has social healthcare, better, worse, the same, none of them have an NHS.
Argue why the NHS is the best method, sure.
Instead people are arguing why we should protect the NHS, on the erroneous logic that - No NHS = No healthcare.
What has happened to the AS of old? The one that plays devils advocate? I really hate to say this but I agree with what he is saying..
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wkdhd
You were quite happy quoting stats that you liked, but when I told you you were wrong as they were so out of date, suddenly stats are not important.
Read the Indy article. It says the NHS is actually the best and is the 2nd cheapest in the research.
The NHS has its good points and its bad points.
Generally speaking, if your illness is severe or life-threatening, it is excellent. On the other hand, we have that NICE organisation, which actually comes across as rather NASTY. I appreciate that it must ascertain that drugs are suitable and effective, but reports in the press suggest that it seems to be more interested in their cost.
If money is in short supply, we could probably manage without half as many managers in the NHS, and we really should divert most of the money we send to 'third world' countries and which has been suggested as being ineffective and a complete waste.
Generally speaking, if your illness is severe or life-threatening, it is excellent. On the other hand, we have that NICE organisation, which actually comes across as rather NASTY. I appreciate that it must ascertain that drugs are suitable and effective, but reports in the press suggest that it seems to be more interested in their cost.
If money is in short supply, we could probably manage without half as many managers in the NHS, and we really should divert most of the money we send to 'third world' countries and which has been suggested as being ineffective and a complete waste.
Uh uh, did *YOU* read it?
Ah.....
But we score really well at patient care and low budgets!
http://healthblog.ncpa.org/broken-m...g-comparison-of-international-health-systems/
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/07/digging-deeper-commonwealth-fund-health-rankings.html
Would you like me to rip you another one?
Or would you rather agree arguing the statistics is not the point.
Coz AS is making perfect sense.
It is nigh-on impossible to have a sensible debate about healthcare in the UK / GB, because most people cannot distinguish "NHS" from "healthcare". Which is why the Tories had to ringfence the NHS funding - regardless of any positive / beneficial outcomes, it would be political suicide to be perceived to be threatening it.
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Rarely post in this section..........
I originally gained a medical qualification (degree- not doctor however! and I stopped working in healthcare in the mid 80`s)
I first started work in the NHS in the "good old days" (I am an old git now)
..........canteens were full of white coats and uniforms, suits were absent!- today suits abound and uniforms are rare!
..........NHS dictated what price it would pay for drugs and dressings to the pharmaceutical companies - today its the other way round!
NHS was run by "matrons" - today whole floors of admin staff are required
most NHS staff work hard, most NHS management "steal" all the budgets but give little back apart from statistics.
..........OH! - MY GOOD IDEA FOR THE DAY - A sign at the entrance to all NHS property`s
......it will read.....
......"we no longer entertain personal injury lawsuits" (a major drain on NHS budgets which has got well out of hand)
I originally gained a medical qualification (degree- not doctor however! and I stopped working in healthcare in the mid 80`s)
I first started work in the NHS in the "good old days" (I am an old git now)
..........canteens were full of white coats and uniforms, suits were absent!- today suits abound and uniforms are rare!
..........NHS dictated what price it would pay for drugs and dressings to the pharmaceutical companies - today its the other way round!
NHS was run by "matrons" - today whole floors of admin staff are required
most NHS staff work hard, most NHS management "steal" all the budgets but give little back apart from statistics.
..........OH! - MY GOOD IDEA FOR THE DAY - A sign at the entrance to all NHS property`s
......it will read.....
......"we no longer entertain personal injury lawsuits" (a major drain on NHS budgets which has got well out of hand)
The NHS is the one where a hospital administrator on £120k per year says she would not allow her own mother to be treated in the hospital she presides over.
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