Use of isolators with showers, oven, and other fixed stuff.

[ericmark]

I did check google shower instructions got Triton showers so read that and it states: is appliance is intended to be permanently connected to the fixed wiring of the electrical mains system.

It also says: Switch off when not in use but states it is a general instruction for all electrical appliances and clearly contradicts the first instruction.

I have had issues with oven isolators being used both simply the clock stops and has to be reset before oven works and loss of cooling fans so carcase over heats.

Around the house there are many isolators from the grid switch supplying stuff in kitchen to FCU with immersion heaters and in the main I would never switch any of them off unless I needed to work on the appliance.

I question the whole idea of switching off a shower or cooker isolator after each time the item is used specially where it's on a pull sting as we all know these have a limited life.

The point is I suppose what is not in use? When we go on holiday the house is not in use and yes switch off shower but with a family of 4 switching off showers and the like seems pointless when not being used far better when they are in use and see the reaction!

To say switch off when not in daily use would make sense maybe even switch off when not in weekly use but I can't even get my wife to unplug phone charger when not in use what chance would I have with shower?

 

[Aragorn84]

I NEVER turned off the shower isolator in the old place, not once in the 4 years we lived there. My parents have also NEVER turned off their shower isolator in the 14 years they've had the house, bar once when i had the shower open replacing some parts. Neither of us ever had a pullcord fail either.

My mother in law turns hers off every time, and shes been thru a few pull cords.

We have a mixer here, so no isolator for that any more, however i've also never turned off the cooker isolator either.

If i was working on the shower or cooker then sure, but otherwise, i see the controls on the appliance themselves as being intended for functional switching, and the isolator as maintenance only.

 

[JohnW2]

I did check google shower instructions got Triton showers so read that and it states: is appliance is intended to be permanently connected to the fixed wiring of the electrical mains system. ... It also says: Switch off when not in use but states it is a general instruction for all electrical appliances and clearly contradicts the first instruction.

I'm not sure there is any contradiction. "permanently connected to fixed wiring" is the usual wording to simply indicate that one shouldn't be using a plug/socket connection. As the instruction to 'switch off when not in use' implies, I don't think that 'permanently connected' is meant to preclude there being an isolator in the circuit.

As for your general question, I'm sure that you'll get a variety of opinions. However, I wouldn't mind betting that the vast majority of appliances/ equipment which have external isolators are never 'isolated when not in use', the isolators only ever being used for maintenance and 'emergencies'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Grenage]

I never 'isolate' showers/ovens and the like, because they're used all the time. It's important to have an isolator, because you can't unplug them.

I'd turn them off if I was going on holiday, but that's about it.

 

[ericmark]

You have all echoed my thoughts. I have only isolated my cooker when it was changed. I would not dream of isolating cooker and the shower has the isolator under the bath so clearly would not isolate that unless a fault (not electric) however on another forum I was picked up when I suggested switching the isolator off on a shower after each shower was not the normal practice so wanted to see what others thought.

 

[Aragorn84]

I think a lot of its these morons that go on about standby lights and making sure everythings turned off so you can save 45.2p a year in electricity. Cant have that neon indicator on the shower isolator sucking up all that juice, better turn it off!!!

I'm sure i recall a thread on here yonks back, where someone was buying new switches and replacing all the isolators round the house, so the neon lamp wasnt drawing power, in order to save money. Completely retarded!


My mother in law doesnt just turn appliances off, she switches them off at the socket AND removes the plug from everything too. Presumably worried about electrons sneaking past the switch contacts, and prefers a double pole contact seperation of 30cm to make really sure.

So you sit down on the couch and pick up the remote... Nothing... Get up and walk over to the TV set, click the button.... Nothing.... Then you have to mangle yourself down the side of it, plug it in, and switch it on. Then realise the Freeview box has also been unplugged, sort thru the plugs for the DVD player and VCR and find the freeview box, and plug that in too. Then wait about 10 minutes while the box "initialises" and by then you've missed half of what you wanted to watch anyway.

She even switches the oven off, EVERY TIME, by rooting around in the back of the cupboard, and turning off the socket its plugged into.

Quite a few times i've woke to a flat laptop battery or phone because i've left them charging in the livingroom and they've been mysteriously turned off. I take them to the bedroom with me now!

 

[OwainDIYer]

I always switch the cooker off at the isolator. It's just too easy to leave a hotplate on otherwise, with a risk of fire, injury, or electricity bill.

Shower isolator gets left on.

 

[kai]

Here is a funny one, Isolators are also known as DISCONECTORS, so it really does appear to contradict the fact that the equipment is permanently connected to the mains electric wiring/supply!!!

 

[ericmark]

I always switch the cooker off at the isolator. It's just too easy to leave a hotplate on otherwise, with a risk of fire, injury, or electricity bill.

Shower isolator gets left on.

I suppose it depends on hotplate. Leave my hotplate on and only a problem if some magnetic material is also left on it like a pan, other wise it does nothing. Also it auto switches off after set time anyway, and also switch first of all down, and then off as temperature rises. When grand children arrive I walk to cooker controls and activate child lock, would never dream of turning off isolator on the wall. In the main because of cooling fans and clock. With no power cupboards at the side of cooker could over heat.

I can however see in my mothers house with halogen hob the problem of it being turned on specially at a low heat. She did have an induction hob but was advised her pace maker was not to EU EMC standards so could be effected. No sooner was it changed and the pace maker was replaced to now she could use an induction hob.

Here is a funny one, Isolators are also known as DISCONECTORS, so it really does appear to contradict the fact that the equipment is permanently connected to the mains electric wiring/supply!!!

That was my point I read the instructions before criticising switching it off after each shower and as I read "appliance is intended to be permanently connected" stopped reading that was all I wanted to know. Then it was pointed out further down this was contradicted but I think some one making the instruction has added the general instruction to all instruction sets to "Switch off when not in use" but to me that switching should be at shower controls no an independent isolator.

There are some things which I would always switch off or unplug any item where the switch is after the step down transformer for example like mobile phone charger one phone removed. But father-in-law will switch off TV, DVD player, Sky box and cordless phone together before going to bed. At least no one will wake him up with an early phone call!

 

[mfarrow]

We discussed recently the relative merits of having an isolator switch on a cooker where touch controls are concerned, in case of boil over of a pan.

The problem is that these big red domestic switches are fine for functional switching, should you require it, bur in terms of safe isolation are absolutely worthless as you can't lock them off.

 

[JohnW2]

The problem is that these big red domestic switches are fine for functional switching, should you require it, bur in terms of safe isolation are absolutely worthless as you can't lock them off.

True (I think) but those 'big red switches' are usually so close to the appliance that 'locking off' is probably not too much of an issue.

Kind Regards, John

 

[mfarrow]

It shouldn't under a lot of circumstanes, however the recommendations can and do specify distances up to 2m for e.g. cooker switches.

Furthermore electricians are taught how to safely isolate and work on electrical equipment whilst in college, and further by HSG85, published by the HSE, and further still by their insurer and competent persons scheme.

Most showers and cookers are also on their own circuit, which makes safe isolation even more convenient.

 

[ericmark]

You make a good point about locking off. However I have been surprised to find frames for locks on MCB's which at first glance look as if they can't be locked off yet no ability to lock of 300A moulder breaker could lock it off when used in a cabinet but not when used as single unit.

I have not seen any device to lock of a pull cord isolator so in real terms they are not an isolator. However the three pole switches for fan isolation do come with bracket and lock.

It is some times surprising when you really look what you can get like bracket that locks over plug stopping one for plugging it in.

Anyway googled pull switch isolator first one was screwfix Ceiling pull switch. BS EN 60669. So looked up number BS7671 Table 53.2 it says Isolation (5) No so although called an isolator can't be used to isolate. The cooker isolator was BS 4177: 1992. Now that can be used to isolate. However can't see how a lock can be fitted.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Anyway googled pull switch isolator first one was screwfix Ceiling pull switch. BS EN 60669. So looked up number BS7671 Table 53.2 it says Isolation (5) No so although called an isolator can't be used to isolate. The cooker isolator was BS 4177: 1992. Now that can be used to isolate. However can't see how a lock can be fitted.

Table 53.4 states BS60669-2-4 is suitable for on-load isolation.

There are other 60669 variants including electronic and time delay switches which are not and
60669-1 which also is not but I'm not sure what kind of switch this is.

There is no note (5) in my book.

 

[JohnW2]

Furthermore electricians are taught how to safely isolate and work on electrical equipment whilst in college, and further by HSG85, published by the HSE, and further still by their insurer and competent persons scheme.

Indeed so.

Most showers and cookers are also on their own circuit, which makes safe isolation even more convenient.

Quite - which makes me a bit confused as to why are you concerned that the 'big red switches' cannot be locked off?

Kind Regards, John