Valliant Plus 418 Heat Exhanger broken after hot water tank

[JBPHS]

Looks like one of those super dooper 15/20 minute services. If your 'heating engineers' call that a boiler that's been serviced annually then they are having your pants down. Didn't you hear them shout "Aye ho Silver!" as they left?

James.

 

[Bunnyman]

Holy FOOKING poo.
Check condense as said, an that has never been cleaned, but shouldn't have been removed anyway, as should be cleaned an new seal every 3 years.

 

[justhomeowners]

Hi all

Thanks for your thoughts.

The boiler was serviced exactly (almost to the day) from install 3 years ago - by the same guys who fitted it. Thought that would prolong the life of it!

The condense pipe (if I'm thinking it's the right thing) goes outside and into an exterior drain. And yes - lots of rain recently.

It's interesting that it's not lime scale and that it's the insulation panel that has disintegrated. I'm trying to learn a little about how it all works. Is there an obvious reason for it doing that? Presumably that's not normal!?

Many thanks

 

[Phill Peck]

When you say a drain is it defiantly a drain or could it be a rainwater down pipe.

If the rainwater outlet gets blocked heavy rain can cause the condense pipe to back fill into the heat exchanger.

If the boiler fires with it blocked/partially filled with water it will sound horrendous.

The insulation panels are not designed to get wet vertically not soaked anyway.

Some idea of what it should like (before a service)

View media item 50477

 

[Agile]

We need to know how the condensate pipe terminates.

It looks as if the condensate pipe has been blocked or rainwater has been able to flow back into the boiler.

I have never seen one in that state before. I was hoping if those who do would say it needs anything more than being properly cleaned out.

That amount of dirt inside will most likely have blocked the outlet for the condensate but of course that can all be cleaned.

Tony

 

[justhomeowners]

Hi there

The pipe comes out of the wall and then down to a drain. It's the same drain that the washing machine pipe goes out to. It's not directly linked to a drain water down pipe at all though.

A question - should a service include looking at the area that has been damaged? Your photo looks clean whereas ours looks corroded and messy.

Can that much damage be done in a year between services? It's literally now a service would have been due so a year has passed since it was last looked at.

It was running sweetly until the new hot water tank was fitted which has me confused.

Many thanks

 

[sooey]

This doesn't read like a condensate problem to me.

Hi there

Help!

We've had a Valliant Plus 418 boiler for just over 3 years with a service every year and no problems at all in that time.

Our plumbers have just this week replaced the old hot water tank for something more efficient but it didn't seem to be working properly after fitting with lots of banging noises coming from the pipework. The plumbers said it was just air but since the boiler started making noises like a lorry so we called them back.
They took apart the boiler and found that the heat exchanger was full of green limescale. It would seem this is why the boiler was making such a noise!

The plumbers have said that the heat exchanger will need to be replaced but won't commit to it being covered by the Valliant warranty as they said they've not seen this problem before.



Many thanks in advance.

 

[justhomeowners]

Hi

Yes - it all happened just after the new water tank - 'a unvented hot water cylinder'. They said it had lots of air in the system and that caused the noise - then the loud noise and a damaged boiler.

Like I said I'm totally uneducated in all this so wanting to get an understanding of what the causes could be before I get billed for a replacement part.

Thanks guys

 

[Tibbot]

There is nothing about changing the hot water cylinder that can cause the problem you've got. Even if your heat exchanger has a water leak from the coils it would have been there before, waiting for some unfortunate to drain & fill it, making it worse.

That said, I consider these heat exchangers unfit for purpose. Then made worse by manufacturers advising inadequate service intervals in order to make their product look less expensive to maintain.

 

[justhomeowners]

Hi there

Thanks for that info. It's really useful to know that the water tank hasn't caused the issue directly.

It's not unheard of that manufacturers create long term problems I know.

So in your opinion should this be covered by the Valliant warranty? It's only a little over 3 years old now. Is it likely to have failed in that time under normal use?

Again, just trying to get an understanding of expectations on this.

Many thanks for your help so far.

 

[Tibbot]

I doubt they'll be interested as the cause is not due to faulty manufacture. My point is that the heat exchanger is a massed produced piece of rubbish. Whereas it used to be that mistakes meant boiler breakdown, this is more a case of incorrect installation/maintenance means a write-off.

 

[justhomeowners]

Hi

Ah I see. So whilst it's probably made as well as it should do the part itself has failed because of perhaps how the boiler was installed or lack of attention when servicing?

Presumably the heating engineers will know that although they probably won't admit to it? I don't mind paying for something that is worn out but object if it's something someone has done. It's not looking like a cheap fix from what you guys have been saying.

If I've got to pay for a new part then I certainly don't want the exact same issue 3 years down the line of course.

Thanks

 

[Phill Peck]

The only things afaik that could cause that would be

A-Blocked condense pipe
B-Leaking main heat exchanger
C-Rain ingress down the flue

Either way none of these happened and caused this in an instant

A- would be a result of poor servicing (not cleaning the condense siphon on service)

B- if this was the car water would be coming out of it now
Or it could be a small crack that opens when hot. Potentially this could have been a cause of over heating, but the boiler would have had fault codes come up had the heat exchanger got that hot.

C- a badly installed flue could allow excessive water in, however for this to happen it would have to coincide with A

 

[justhomeowners]

Thanks for that

I'm getting the picture now. I do know that they said they'd have to turn off the boiler as it'll leak water so am starting to suspect that B - leaking from the main heat exchanger is the cause.

On that basis is that just wear and tear (a very short life for a heat exchanger when the previous boiler ran for 10+ years without major issues) or down to lack of proper servicing.

Like I said I don't mind paying for a part that has genuinely worn out but 3 years seems pretty short to me.


Thanks

 

[Phill Peck]

If the main heat exchanger has cracked then I would expect that to be covered by the warranty.

Is the system pressurised or open vented.
Was it power flushed/cleaned before the new boiler went in?