VIESSMAN VITODENS 200W(35kW), ATAG E32C or VAILLANT 837 ?
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Anyone got any experience of ATAG E or Q combi boilers or the VIESSMAN 200W ?
It would be great to hear what they're like, including the after sales service.
I'd like to invest in something that will last, but am a little concerned that anything too exotic will be difficult to have serviced/repaired.
-would've gone for VAILLANT but I keep hearing creeping dissatisfaction with the way they're being dumbed down by the Glowworm connection... ie BUILD QUALITY ...SERVICE ENGINEERS ...MANAGEMENT even...
A boiler is a big investment for us so we really need to get it right, any advice based on experience of these boilers would be greatly appreciated !
It would be great to hear what they're like, including the after sales service.
I'd like to invest in something that will last, but am a little concerned that anything too exotic will be difficult to have serviced/repaired.
-would've gone for VAILLANT but I keep hearing creeping dissatisfaction with the way they're being dumbed down by the Glowworm connection... ie BUILD QUALITY ...SERVICE ENGINEERS ...MANAGEMENT even...
A boiler is a big investment for us so we really need to get it right, any advice based on experience of these boilers would be greatly appreciated !
I would recommend the Viessman. If you get an engineer that is registered with them you will automatically get a 5 year warranty on parts and labour, and a 10 year guarantee on the heat exchanger. In mainland Europe they have been among the most dependable for decades. As the aftersales service from them, I don't know, haven't had a problem with any of the ones I've installed, (knock on wood).
Atag are probably at the top in terms of quality, Viessmann next (not the 100 or Compacts which are cheap versions for the UK market), and a long long way behind are Vaillant.
Atag and Viessmann will have limited backup in terms of spares (at merchants) and service engineers. So a deciding point would be to contact them for installers in your area who have sufficient knowledge of these boilers.
Also remember when you pay twice as much for a quality boiler you can sometimes pay twice as much for spares, so its worth checking the cost of some common items eg fans, pcbs etc. ie you could go through 2 or 3 cheaper boilers for the same price
Atag and Viessmann will have limited backup in terms of spares (at merchants) and service engineers. So a deciding point would be to contact them for installers in your area who have sufficient knowledge of these boilers.
Also remember when you pay twice as much for a quality boiler you can sometimes pay twice as much for spares, so its worth checking the cost of some common items eg fans, pcbs etc. ie you could go through 2 or 3 cheaper boilers for the same price
Thanks njk & Gasguru ,
do you fit many of these -which wall hung models seem to be the most popular of these makes ?
Is the VITODEN'S 200W a British (lack of) quality model ?
& Is it true that the VITODENS 300W isn't available for the UK market - I was told this by Viessman's Technical line ?
Regarding spares, we currently have a BG HOMECARE agreement on our current boiler ...I guess as they say they cover any boiler that this would cover these premium manufacturers ...but would these manufacturers recognise BG as competent engineers to service their boilers ???
Sorry for so many questions ...I'd like to get an ATAG/VIESSMAN , it's just I want to be absolutely certain that they're worth their premium price
Hmmmmmmm .....
still undecided
do you fit many of these -which wall hung models seem to be the most popular of these makes ?
Is the VITODEN'S 200W a British (lack of) quality model ?
& Is it true that the VITODENS 300W isn't available for the UK market - I was told this by Viessman's Technical line ?
Regarding spares, we currently have a BG HOMECARE agreement on our current boiler ...I guess as they say they cover any boiler that this would cover these premium manufacturers ...but would these manufacturers recognise BG as competent engineers to service their boilers ???
Sorry for so many questions ...I'd like to get an ATAG/VIESSMAN , it's just I want to be absolutely certain that they're worth their premium price
Hmmmmmmm .....
still undecided
If you go for Atag you won't be disappointed. Very high quality. The E series are their entry level boiler. The Q is the top end version which you can include add-ons. I don't think its fair to say Atag and Vaillant in the same sentence. I would say Atag are on par with Viessmann, but I have always preferred Dutch
Btw, If anyone wants a quote for an installed Atag, drop me an email.
Btw, If anyone wants a quote for an installed Atag, drop me an email.
I don't have any precise knowledge of the boilers mentioned and don't install that often (although I have pulled them apart) but the trade regulars on here have access to other trade only forums where the boilers suggested are discussed.
AFAIK the 100 and compacts were specifically designed for the UK market. Reports are the UK backup is poor since they are still building the brand here.
In reality we pay next to nothing for boilers in this country (plasma Tv's and Sky boxes take higher priority) and this UK mentality (and dumbed down society) has lead to a massive reduction in quality of boilers since customers are not prepared to pay for quality. Contrast that with customers in Germany who typically pay twice as much as we do.
Therfore in order to have a hope of competing with the mainstream manufacturers, Viessmann cheapened the design. There have been issues with circuit boards and ignitors (and we don't yet know of other long term latent faults). AFAIK the 200 and higher models have been fine. Despite this Viessmann have owned up and appear to be a whole lot more ethical than the likes of Baxi.
Vaillant are now well down the field, I actually rate a Baxi Platinum or Duotec better and that's saying something.
As for BG, its a lottery on a succesful repair with a common boiler make, with an Atag etc forget it. You'll need an installer who is regularly working on these, the manuals I have are pretty much incomprehensible (and I used to play with VI and UNIX ).
AFAIK the 100 and compacts were specifically designed for the UK market. Reports are the UK backup is poor since they are still building the brand here.
In reality we pay next to nothing for boilers in this country (plasma Tv's and Sky boxes take higher priority) and this UK mentality (and dumbed down society) has lead to a massive reduction in quality of boilers since customers are not prepared to pay for quality. Contrast that with customers in Germany who typically pay twice as much as we do.
Therfore in order to have a hope of competing with the mainstream manufacturers, Viessmann cheapened the design. There have been issues with circuit boards and ignitors (and we don't yet know of other long term latent faults). AFAIK the 200 and higher models have been fine. Despite this Viessmann have owned up and appear to be a whole lot more ethical than the likes of Baxi.
Vaillant are now well down the field, I actually rate a Baxi Platinum or Duotec better and that's saying something.
As for BG, its a lottery on a succesful repair with a common boiler make, with an Atag etc forget it. You'll need an installer who is regularly working on these, the manuals I have are pretty much incomprehensible (and I used to play with VI and UNIX
).Absolutely right! I got a call from an Atag SHR15 user who'd had the thing serviced by the installer for 6 years or so - no problems. Then the installer stopped doing domestic work and the customer took out a BG however-many-stars 'service' contract. For a couple more years, BG didn't (need to?) do anything so all was well. This year, the tech decided to turn it off (for some reason), turned it back on, then wondered why it didn't work anymore - having failed to recognise the 17-minute automatic air-purge squence that the boiler does whenever it's been turned off. It appears he then did some more fiddling about and then the front panel display failed - because he'd pinched a ribbon cable in the boiler casing seam and caused a short. Miraculously, the boiler was restartable when I got to it - there was sufficient control from the remote 'Brain' controller to get it working but not enough to do any maintenance functions. BG, meanwhile, had slunk off to order a new main PCB and display PCB.
A couple of weeks later, the customer called BG (again!) and was told the parts still hadn't arrived. This was odd, because the previous day I'd been physically IN the Atag stores where the order would have been processed and no PCB orders from BG had been received (ever!). The customer then discovered that there's a strangeness in BG's parts handling system. If the part is in stock, it's sent out IMMEDIATELY, if it's out-of-stock, it will be sent out as soon as it comes in. But if it's NEVER, EVER been stocked - tough luck. It'll never come. Apparently, it's VERY complicated to get parts stocked initially and Atag has never made it in there! Good economics at least - since Atags hardly ever need parts (give or take a ham-fisted tech) BG would have wasted it's money on dead stock!
Needless to say, customer has now given up on BG (apart from getting money off them!) and I'll fix the boiler.
To address your questions on the Viessmann front:
200W: Launched in October. We were promised two on the 5th November. Now delayed until the 10th December. Customer asking for deposit back, havoc in the office rescheduling.
300 26-35kW: Pulled in late August to make way for 200W. Viessmann gave no notice and couldn't give a damn about any promises made to customers.
300 49-66kW: Went out of stock in UK and Germany during November. We had to reschedule a planned job in two sections, cost to me £700. Customer thinks we forgot to order boiler. When it did arrive Viessmann didn't send out control panel. Luckily we had an old one on the shelf.
100 series combi: 30% failure rate in the field. Word has it that Viessmann are working on a revised 100 series that is cheaper. Incredible.
100 Compact: No major faults but cheaply made, rubber hoses etc. Flow switch sometimes doesn't move on an OV system.
You won't find a review on a 200W model (we ordered the 200W 30kW system) because they haven't delivered any.
200W: Launched in October. We were promised two on the 5th November. Now delayed until the 10th December. Customer asking for deposit back, havoc in the office rescheduling.
300 26-35kW: Pulled in late August to make way for 200W. Viessmann gave no notice and couldn't give a damn about any promises made to customers.
300 49-66kW: Went out of stock in UK and Germany during November. We had to reschedule a planned job in two sections, cost to me £700. Customer thinks we forgot to order boiler. When it did arrive Viessmann didn't send out control panel. Luckily we had an old one on the shelf.
100 series combi: 30% failure rate in the field. Word has it that Viessmann are working on a revised 100 series that is cheaper. Incredible.
100 Compact: No major faults but cheaply made, rubber hoses etc. Flow switch sometimes doesn't move on an OV system.
You won't find a review on a 200W model (we ordered the 200W 30kW system) because they haven't delivered any.
THANKS.
Viessman seem to be having a few problems then (giving them the benefit of the doubt )
Would be sad to see another manufacturer dumbed down specifically for us ...vicious circle -establish a name for quality then destroy it (a la VAILLANT) for a greater market share
Why do you still fit them if the company messes you around like that..?
Viessman seem to be having a few problems then (giving them the benefit of the doubt
)Would be sad to see another manufacturer dumbed down specifically for us ...vicious circle -establish a name for quality then destroy it (a la VAILLANT) for a greater market share
Why do you still fit them if the company messes you around like that..?
S
sanj.varah
i've got a vitodens 300 35kW, so i guess 1 up from the one you were fitting.
I had a few problems with it. The first being knowing exactly what you need. I ended up having to purchase a few extra items which weren't included.
The system is designed for german plumbing, so there are a few issues there.
As far as how it works, i can't fault it. Mine is system with weather comp and it really is the bees knees.
I was considering installing an ATAG, but they wouldn't sell to anyone who wasn't CORGI registered - even if you were getting a reg to install it, thus i opted for the viessmann.
I can echo some of the other comments on here. THe vitodens 100 is useless. Aluminium exchanger and made on a budget. ALso uses 230V controls and is pretty rubbish.
200 and 300 seem reasonable. At the time the 200 didn't come in 35kW so I opted for the 300. I only installed it in July.
I had a few problems with it. The first being knowing exactly what you need. I ended up having to purchase a few extra items which weren't included.
The system is designed for german plumbing, so there are a few issues there.
As far as how it works, i can't fault it. Mine is system with weather comp and it really is the bees knees.
I was considering installing an ATAG, but they wouldn't sell to anyone who wasn't CORGI registered - even if you were getting a reg to install it, thus i opted for the viessmann.
I can echo some of the other comments on here. THe vitodens 100 is useless. Aluminium exchanger and made on a budget. ALso uses 230V controls and is pretty rubbish.
200 and 300 seem reasonable. At the time the 200 didn't come in 35kW so I opted for the 300. I only installed it in July.
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