waste not draining - saniflow or not?

[mattshaw]

I've installed my bathroom waste, as per the diagram shown. It has a drop of about 8cm over 4m. The bath was in the same position prior to me altering the layout and it drained away ok. I have used 40mm solvent weld.
When draining the bath the water is draining, but it is coming through the shower waste and I'm getting a lot of gurgling going on in the sinks. Inititally it flowed ok, since then I did some tiling and stupidly used the bath to wash up in, and there has been a lot of tile adhesive left in the pipes. I have taken them apart this weekend and flushed and scraped most of the adhesive out of the inside of the pipes but I'm still getting the same problem.

I also wonder wether the 't' junction where the sink waste meets the bath waste is causing a problem with the water not flowing smoothly?

I also wonder wether to install a sanishower, if so where should I position it?

My only other option is to take the waste from the shower directly down through the living room (and box in) down the side of the fireplace and into the cellar where I already have a saniflow installed for the utility room. Any advice gratefully received.
View media item 24935

 

[HERTS P&D]

Can you not fit a separate waste for the shower?

Andy

 

[mattshaw]

Not using the same route as the bath because I would have to take more noggins out of the joists and I can't do that as it will weaken them.

My only other option as I see it is to go down the side of the chimney breast, through the living room and into the cellar to the sanilflow. This will definitely drain with the drop involved but will involve a very long run of pipe work.

As the run is over 4m, and I'm getting a lot of gurgling could there me a syponing problem, should I have any aav's installed??

 

[Nige F]

What`s on the outside wall - that the waste goes into Drawing of soilpipe etc will be good

 

[mattshaw]

It goes through the external wall then via a 135º bend into a fall fall pipe (not the soil stack). (the type of fall pipe used to take away rainwater from guttering.)

 

[mattshaw]

the sink gurgles a lot when the bath is being emptied. I did not fit a aav which I should have done. Could there be a vacuum being created which is stopping the water from draining freely and if so would an AAC solve this?

As a simple experiment, if I disconnect the trap from under the sink temporarily and try draining it then as a test would this have the same effect as an AAC?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Ideally you needed to use 50mm pipe from where the bath joins, but as a get around i'd suggest anti vac traps on the basins, and fit a HepVo valve on the shower, before the bath. This should stop any backflow from the bath, but you'd be wise to make sure all the pipework is accessible in the event of future needs if it blocks.....

 

[mnb]

From what i can make out you dont have any venting for your waste, and if you followed thro with your proposal to drop the shower waste down/by the chimney flue you will cause even more venting issues.

Is the shower waste 2" and does that 2" waste continue out to the RWP/hopper head? Dont reduce a waste. Anyhow, you need a vent/AAV.


As a matter of interest, noggins are not there to provide structural support to the floor joists. It's claimed that noggins will prevent sqeaking and sagging joists - others claim that they are not necessary.
First fix plumbers often smash solid noggins out of the way.

If this bathroom is a converted bedroom, why didn't you remove the c/breast and give yourself more options?

 

[mnb]

Just read Jaleak and he's spot on with better advice than mine.

 

[Nige F]

the sink gurgles a lot when the bath is being emptied. I did not fit a aav which I should have done. Could there be a vacuum being created which is stopping the water from draining freely and if so would an AAC solve this?

As a simple experiment, if I disconnect the trap from under the sink temporarily and try draining it then as a test would this have the same effect as an AAC?

yes

 

[mattshaw]

Brilliant advice guys, this forum is amazing!!

The waste is not reduced at all, it is 40mm throughout.

1. If there is any debris left inside the pipes, sludge etc - is there an agent I can put through the pipes - or is bleach as good as anything?

2. I will invest in the hep valve for sure - it won't reduce the flow at all will it of waste from the shower?


I've already got an anti vac trap on the bath but will get some for the sinks. I've attached a few pics of the project so far! Shower door was supplied wrong handed so that needs changing and refitting! Joy!!!

I didn't knock out the chimney breast as I'm keeping it as a feature! - some pics attached.

Thanks for the advice!

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• mattshaw
• 10 Aug 2010
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• mattshaw
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[mattshaw]

I've given the whole pipe run a good flushing with the hose pipe, and put a lot of bleach down there. So far the water is now flowing a lot easier and I'm hardly getting any coming back into the shower tray. When I put the cold hose down the shower trap though (as my shower door is not on yet I cannot run the shower) the shower tray fills up to almost the brim (it is only shallow) whilst it drains away. I have to take into account the fact that I'm still getting gurgling of the sinks as Ive not yet put the aav traps on (i assume this may help with siphoning), and the fact that the flow of cold water through the hose will be greater than hot water from the boiler.

If I am getting problems with it draining then which of the following options would you recommend:

1) Restricting flow of water to digital shower unit via a half turn of the valve
2) Increasing bore of waste to 50mm - involves a lot of work and taking more wood from joists which I don't want to do as I'm scared it will weaken them
3) Would a sanishower help?

 

[mnb]

1. Can't advise you on shower - could be dangerous advice. Shower is not the problem, it's the drainage.

2. Which way are your joists running? If drainage water is flooding the shower tray than you might consider calling in a plumber to consider a re-routing of the drainage. Given the difficulties that you've got yourself in so far you might end up with a collapsed ceiling and an onrush of gallons of hot, dirty, chemically contaminated water.

3. Do not put any more bleach or chemicals down the drainage, it will come back and bite you or someone else, typically a plumber.

4. If you do go for the 50mm then use solvent weld - never have compression in floors or walls.

5. Stay away from any Sani devices - you will only be storing up further trouble.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

The original diagram has disappeared, trying to recall exactly what you had done. I have to echo what mnb has said, especially about the chemicals. If you start dismantling anything, use extreme caution. Anglian Water had a poster up at one of their sites, with a simple message. "Wear goggles. Your eyes cannot be replaced."

You've notched the joists for the 40mm pipe, I'd be wary of taking any more out as you've said. Something isnt right, i'd expect a 40mm pipe to drain a shower without any drama, provided you're not trying to discharge a bathload at the same time.....

This issue seems to have manifested itself since you 'washed up' in the bath! As the pipes are somewhat clogged with tile adhesive, I doubt any chemical will remove it. I'd bite the bullet, and replace the pipes, otherwise you'll be leaving yourself wide open to further problems by giving plenty of points for hair and congealed soap to catch and further clog the pipes.... Whilst doing this, if it is possible to run a dedicated waste in tandem with the existing for either the bath or shower then I would do.

 

[mattshaw]

Thanks for the advice guys, again solid! Have re attached the drain plan. Also bought a couple of new traps as the pic attached. Were sold them as anti vac, but I notice that some other anti vac traps have a small air inlet nodule on them - have I been sold the right thing?

Bathroom Drain Plan

• mattshaw
• 9 Aug 2010
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Bathroom Drain Plan

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• mattshaw
• 12 Aug 2010
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