Water based satin - what am I doing wrong

[Old_Engineer]

Finally tackling repainting old oil-based glossed woodwork ...
Tried sugar soap, rub down and appiedy modern (low VOC) oilbased undercoat - adhered fine.
Left it a week to dry thoroughly and applied aqua satin finish but it is peeling off all over the place.
So I tried water based primer-undercoat over the oil undercoat - adhered fine.
Then aqua satin again but it's still peeling off.
I really don't know what to do next.
Any advice much appreciated

 

[footprints]

I use aqua seems fine although it does not respond well to heavy cleaning, they do specify their undercoat which so far I have always done.
Might be something odd about your oil based stuff, but you say other water based works OK. I would try the aqua over some aqua water based undercoat on another scrap bit of timber it is possible you have a dodgy batch.

 

[Old_Engineer]

Thank you for the suggestion, I have started a little test with some scrap wood.

 

[Old_Engineer]

Interesting results...
1 Aqua satin over aqua primer-undercoat - absolutely fine
2 Aqua satin over oil-based undercoat - peels
3 Aqua primer-undercoat over oil-based undercoat - cissing (at least that's what I think it's called having hunted on the web for a description) but sticks OK where it hasn't receded away from the substrate.
The trial was done on some bare chipboard and I just left the undercoats to dry overnight (versus a week on the paintwork I did in the house).

So here's my theory, which may just be wishful thinking ... some oil still permeating to the surface of the oil-based undercoat in the house because the 40 years worth of gloss underneath it is impermeable. But not quite so bad on the bare wood even after one day as the wood is permeable.
I which case if I leave the undercoat in the house for another couple of weeks (it looks better than the old gloss anyway) and then do aqua primer-undercoat I might find the aqua satin will be OK on top of that.
Any other ideas would be welcome ...

 

[footprints]

You could try a stain blocker like Zinsser bullseye 123 or perhaps BIN. I would go for the 123 that is water based myself I think.

 

[Chri5]

Oils take time to dry firm, they realise vapour. Might it be the vapour that is acting as a shield between your newish oil UC and the WB satin?

Ive overpainted loads of oil based paint with satin WB, simple rub back, spot WB prime and then the satin.

The difference being the oil I paint over is several years old.

 

[Old_Engineer]

Thanks for the advice again footprints and chri5.
How long will it take for the new undercoat to fully dry and harden?
I'm thinking of leaving it for a month and then trying again? And if that's no good then try the stain blocker.
Also, I guess I need to strip off the peeling paint I put on the skirtings and door frames already - is it best to do that now while it's a bit soft or later when it too has hardened?

 

[dcdec]

General rule of thumb is oil over water ok but never water over oil. With modern technology applied to coatings this isn't always the case but not a bad rule of thumb. Best thing to do is apply a bridging coat, something like coverstain.

 

[Old_Engineer]

Well, the saga continues ...
I have left the oil-based undercoat for a full month to dry and hopefully dissipate the oil.
I put a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 over two doors as a trial and left it 12 hours to dry.
I then did a 'masking tape test' and all the Bullseye peeled off.
Have I discovered a miracle teflon undercoat to which nothing on earth will stick?
Or do I just need to be a bit more patient and give the Bullseye a couple more days to dry?
I'm at a bit of a loss what to do next.

 

[Robbie uk]

Zinsser Coverstain probably will be the best for this application. Im using some at the moment with Armstead WB Satin on top and its going on great !

 

[dcdec]

The coverstain acts as a bridging coat between oil and water based coatings. It works well, your symptoms are adhesion problems, the coverstain will sort this as long as you rub back the loose and flaking paint.