What should I do with this?

[dormermike]

Hi

Had drains cctv and jet washed today and after a jet of water sprayed mud everywhere, this orange pipe was discovered exiting one of the inspection chambers (sewer) and leading off about 4 metres into soil and open as shown.

Untitled

• dormermike
• 4 Sep 2013
• 1

The drain people said to leave it, but considering the amount of mud and stones they had to get out of my drain i'm not too sure I should leave it. It did have a peice of black plastic over it, which i've removed as I was going to cap it off, but then noticed it has holes drilled into it going about a foot or two inside.

Presumably intended as some sort of soakaway, should I just leave it, or cap it off somehow? It runs alongside a block driveway, under a flower bed.

Thanks
Mike

EDIT: meant to add, it is above the level of the entry into the chamber, so presumably not a soakaway as such but intended to drain the soil into the sewer, so reverse of a soakaway i guess..

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Holes look quite uniform in apperance and spacing, so would suspect it is a land drain, although if it doesnt appear to be serving any purpose, cap it off. If you find the area getting boggy, remove the cap at the manhole end and see if it actually drains anything. 110mm caps are available to seal it.

 

[mfarrow]

Yep, land drain. Used to drain land where it becomes boggy. Yours looks fairly new as it's plastic, so I'd put a cap on it and leave the holes to do their job.

Become an expert: http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain03.htm

 

[dormermike]

Great, thanks both

Wickes didn't have one earlier, i'll order one online or try b and q tomorrow. Got some old plastic board and bricks in front of it at the moment - concerned about rats!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Dont think you'll get a cap to fit on the end, most likely have to fit a coupling then a plug. Will need a bit of lubricant to fit or you'll displace the seals.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/double-socket-drain-coupling/invt/432012/ and a http://www.wickes.co.uk/blanking-off-drain-plug/invt/432014/ in the open end.

 

[dann09]

1. Why had the land drainage pipe been originally installed?

2. I would definitely lift the drainage pipe and move it away from the IC.
Then, if the ground still requires draining, i would lay a proper gravel bedding and cover to falls, and drain away to a sump.

3. How does the pipe enter the IC? Do you have a pic?

4. The IC cannot be left with a "hole" in the chamber wall. Debris & soil will enter and create blockages.

5. Regs forbid, under hefty penalties, the draining of land water (water table?) into a public sewer.

 

[mfarrow]

1. Why had the land drainage pipe been originally installed?

I'm sure if the OP knew that he wouldn't be on here asking about it.

2. I would definitely lift the drainage pipe and move it away from the IC.
Then, if the ground still requires draining, i would lay a proper gravel bedding and cover to falls, and drain away to a sump.

That's a lot of work for a 2' land drain.

5. Regs forbid, under hefty penalties, the draining of land water (water table?) into a public sewer.

I was unaware of such regulations. Can you please point me in the right direction? We do not know the exacting specificiation of the OP's agreement with the water co., but I would have thought this would be fine for a combined sewer, and the fluid that's pouring down it will be a lot less toxic than anything else which usually gets poured down them.

 

[dormermike]

Correct - i dont know why it was put in. I've never noticed that area being boggy (it is overgrown) but perhaps thats because of the landdrain anyway. Opposite side of the drive are 3 gulleys and the drive slops towards those.

The pipe was likely installed, or modified, when the driveway was put down during 2007. The reason I say that is the plastic stuff covering it looked like it had been flattened on top of the outlet, and also as the pipe runs under the drive it presumably was there first.

This pipe, by the way, as I realise it is not obvious from the photo, is only about 6 inches from the surface.

Photo showing location of IC and approx path of pipe.

Untitled

• dormermike
• 5 Sep 2013
• 1

 

[dormermike]

3. How does the pipe enter the IC? Do you have a pic?

The IC chamber is plastic and there are several entry points in the bottom of it. This is one of them.

 

[dann09]

mfarrow,

What a bizarre statement your first comment is.

The OP's query was: "should i just leave it, or cap it off?"
I drew him out and we learned a lot more, plus an annotated pic, about the situation.

The OP then revealed that he actually did know far more about why the land drain had possibly been originally installed.

Perhaps, you object to understanding an issue before jumping in - there's a building trade term for such careless people.

The pipe length is 4m not 2ft.
Ref. the "Thats a lot of work". Do you also object to doing a job properly?

In your posts you pretend to expert plumbing knowledge, yet you are "unaware" of a most basic drainage Regulation.

Common sense tells even the most basic DIY'er that land draining, or possibly water table tapping is a Regulation no no.
The issue has nothing to do with a combined sewer.

Regs & WRAS are on google.

You then make another ludicrous claim for the "less toxic" nature of the land drain run-off. The OP has already complained of the blockage to his "sewer" and the expense and disruption of camera and jetting. But you "would have thought it fine"?

 

[mfarrow]

dann

Why is my comment so bizarre to you? If an OP starts off with a question like "what's this for?" under what scenario would you suppose they know why it was installed?

I suggest you actually answer what was a basic question about regulations surrounding land drains. I've done a search on their supposed illegality and I must admit I have drawn a blank, so you need to be a bit more specific.

I didn't pretend to be an expert about drains I just referred the OP to an article which explained what he was looking at. Also he said "it has holes drilled into it going about a foot or two inside", the rest is just connecting pipework.

I have no problem with work being done properly but I do have a problem with unnecessary work.

Refer me to the regulation which you insist forbids land drains and I will have some respect for you. Throwing me blind references to google it and spouting insults just tells me you need to grow up.

 

[dann09]

The OP doesn't "start off with a question like whats this for?" which hat did you pull that from - the 2ft pipe length one?

"under what scenario .. etc" we dont do scenario's in the building trade, we ask obvious questions to tease out the best info available from a lay person.

If you carefully read the opening post you will see a number of clues as to what the OP knew: "some sort of soakaway" "to drain the soil into the sewer" "runs alongside a block driveway".

Carry on researching as advised - you will learn much.

Dont wriggle, you said "a 2ft. land drain".

Your problem with doing a proper job - would you consider lifting floor boards to mend a leak unnecessary work? But moving 4m of drainage thats caused damage and expense you do consider unnecessary work?

I never said that there was a Regulation forbidding land drains: "which you insist forbids land drains" - this is the third rabbit that you've pulled out of the hat in one thread. I'm afraid that i cannot spare any more time attempting to give you a heads up.

If you consider that you have been insulted then dont step up in the first place. I'm so used to dealing with men who know their business, i'm sorry that i insulted you.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

In fairness I dont think Water Co's devote too much time to checking for illegal surface water or land drain connections to the sewer. Of most concern are illegally connected foul drains to surface water sewers. If the OP doesnt tell the Water Co, they are hardly likely to come looking..... Many miles of Sewers built over the ages are not watertight, and groundwater leaks in, repairs are only effected should the structural condition of the sewer become cause for concern.

Whoever connected that land drain to the sewer was in the wrong, but it seems overkill now for the OP to completely remove it. It does seem an odd idea though, the drive falls away from the drain, and is also edged along that side so really cannot see the purpose of the drain!

 

[dann09]

In fairness to whom? Every householder who pays for water and drainage will pay to treat any surface water that gets intentionally or unintentionally mixed with the sewage.

The above case is not significant but i've seen an architect direct an established stream into a sewage pipe (post BCO inspection), thereby adding millions of gallons of land water to be treated at our expense for 30 years.
He wanted to save the cost of diverting the stream.

Agreed, the utility dont come checking for illegal drainage. But this is a public site and many viewers (& perhaps the OP?) might be surprised that such antics are not allowed, & that there are consequences if detected.

I suggested displacing the drain on the basis of the initial post where it "ran alongside the driveway", pre the second pic of the route under the drive.

The OP doesn't have to remove it, of course, merely to block the inlet to the IC.

Note:
the environmental significance of treated sewage and sewage water in the UK is now reaching a point of "whats to be done with it?" There's virtually no place left for dumping. All this business of pumping "treated" water into the sea has to stop. Thats where our kids went seaside swimming in the summer. In treated sewage.

 

[dormermike]

Fair points, thanks for the info all.

Having looked inside by taking a movie with my cameraphone, the drainage holes don't all line up sort of like it has been drilled. As for purpose I don't know what was laid before the block paving but I guess its possible there was a gulley this side and they just got rid of the drap. Seems a bit shallow mind, but who knows!

I will excavate a bit more with a view to blocking off at top level rather than inside IC. I could do both, just don't fancy doing only IC side as pipe will fill up with soil.

Cheers all.