When considering in or out:

[Doggit]

I don't know why we're bothering with this topic again, nobody's going to change their viewpoint, no matter what gets quoted.

 

[PBC_1966]

Pretty much summarizes the whole thing:

http://www.ukip.org/not_worth_the_paper_the_eu_referendum_deal

 

[JohnD]

Yep, UKIP is certainly trusted as an unbiased source of truthful information

 

[PBC_1966]

Which parts do you believe are not true then?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Isn't it strange how the dedicated 'remainers' all believe in democracy but slag off anyone who disagrees with them even though, as I've pointed out lots of times, no one can possibly know what leaving will be like.


As someone on Have I Got News For You commented, if the consequences of leaving are as dire as the remainers (including Cameron and Co.) state why on earth are we being given the chance to vote on it?
So, if the decision is to leave and the country falls apart, can we sue Cameron and co for dereliction of duty?

The general voter will know nothing either way so it will come down to whether they like foreigners or not, while not realising that when they go abroad they are foreigners.

 

[PBC_1966]

The general voter will know nothing either way so it will come down to whether they like foreigners or not, while not realising that when they go abroad they are foreigners.

I would really hope that anyone with the incentive to vote would do so based on something a little more tangible than that.

 

[Himaginn]

Isn't it strange how the dedicated 'remainers' all believe in democracy but slag off anyone who disagrees with them even though, as I've pointed out lots of times, no one can possibly know what leaving will be like.

But we can make a shrewd estimate, and it doesn't look rosy. Which is more than the Brexiters are willing to do.

As someone on Have I Got News For You commented, if the consequences of leaving are as dire as the remainers (including Cameron and Co.) state why on earth are we being given the chance to vote on it?
So, if the decision is to leave and the country falls apart, can we sue Cameron and co for dereliction of duty?

The politicians are not bound to honour the results of the referendum. It's a motion and a vote in HofP that will commence the Brexit. Obviously, if the referendum is ignored, then the chances at the next General Election would not be good.

The general voter will know nothing either way so it will come down to whether they like foreigners or not, while not realising that when they go abroad they are foreigners.

I think the average member of the electorate will realise their living standards are seriously declining, plus any travel inconveniences encountered, etc.

 

[Himaginn]

It depends what exactly you mean by "checked." Do you mean opened, the details and photo inspected and confirmed to be the person in question, or do you just mean somebody seeing you holding a closed passport as you walk through?

I've never been a huge European traveler, but the last time I went to France (1998) the French inspector did look inside and check the details (in Dover - the Channel Tunnel). Going into Spain in the 1980's it was just holding a closed passport (proper British one at that time, not an EU-type) and being waved right through. Ireland doesn't really count because of the long-standing agreement and no passport needed anyway.

That's because you traveled between two Schengen countries, France/Spain. You don't even need to waive a closed passport now. You'll probably never even notice the border.
BTW, traveling into France UK passports are not scanned, just checked, but travelling into UK they are.

Entering the U.S. on a British passport, of course, it's always inspected.

Coming back into the U.K., I think I can recall just one time somebody actually looked inside and I didn't just have a visible British/EU passport in my hand and be waved right through.

That must have been a long time ago. Passports are regularly scanned now. Although UK Passport control does not keep records of UK citizens travelling in and out of UK, they do keep records of other nationalities' citizens coming and going. Ask them, using a UK passport, ask for your record of passing through passport control (using Information disclosure) they'll return your cheque, uncashed (£10) and tell you that they don't keep your records.
Then, if you can, ask someone of a different nationality to do likewise. They'll get a read out, but it'll cost 'em £10.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The general voter will know nothing either way so it will come down to whether they like foreigners or not, while not realising that when they go abroad they are foreigners.

I think the average member of the electorate will realise their living standards are seriously declining, plus any travel inconveniences encountered, etc.

I think you, as is often the case, have misunderstood my comment.

I was suggesting that the average voter is not very bright and will be completely ignorant of the issue.
It's like having a referendum on the best way to repair the Large Hadron Collider.

 

[Himaginn]

I think you, as is often the case, have misunderstood my comment.

I was suggesting that the average voter is not very bright and will be completely ignorant of the issue.
It's like having a referendum on the best way to repair the Large Hadron Collider.

I think we've discussed your rather vague comments before.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You see what a waste of time arguing with you is.

What is vague - or untrue - about "I was suggesting that the average voter is not very bright and will be completely ignorant of the issue"?

 

[Himaginn]

You see what a waste of time arguing with you is.

What is vague - or untrue - about "I was suggesting that the average voter is not very bright and will be completely ignorant of the issue"?

That was not the vague comment that I was referring to.
It was:

The general voter will know nothing either way so it will come down to whether they like foreigners or not, while not realising that when they go abroad they are foreigners.

Which was the vague comment to which I was referring, and as soon as I guessed at one of the possible meanings of your comment, you declare that I've misunderstood you.
Well if you weren't so vague, it wouldn't have happened.
If you don't want me to misunderstand you next time, be more clear about what your intended meaning is.
But that's not your style, is it?

Additionally, even ignorant or 'not very bright' people are aware of their living standards falling and the changes to the convenience of showing or not showing passports, etc!
Even 'not very bright' people are aware of changes about their environment. Look at the likes of LMB, fender, et al. They're always moaning that UK is not what it was!

 

[fender]

"Not very bright"!!

Himmy,

I could suggest where you may stick that comment, but I'm sure you know already!
Anyway, no doubt your head would be in the way.

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[PBC_1966]

That's because you traveled between two Schengen countries, France/Spain. You don't even need to waive a closed passport now. You'll probably never even notice the border.

No, my one and only entry into Spain was a direct flight from the U.K., somewhere back around 1987 or 1988 - Not long after Spain joined the EC.

Coming back into the U.K., I think I can recall just one time somebody actually looked inside and I didn't just have a visible British/EU passport in my hand and be waved right through.

That must have been a long time ago. Passports are regularly scanned now.

Multiple trips to the U.S. in the earlier 1990's, the last re-entry from there being 1996, plus the trip to France in 1998. I think it was one of the returns from the U.S. that my passport got closer scrutiny.

Although UK Passport control does not keep records of UK citizens travelling in and out of UK

So you're saying that they now always scan U.K. passports on re-entry, but don't keep any record? Presumably the scanning is just to confirm valid details, that the person isn't wanted, etc?