When considering in or out:

[Himaginn]

Misquoting me on the my response about the Guernsey model!

Baffled by this one. Your own screengrab shows I quoted you word for word . (I added "haha I win" for rhetorical effect, obviously )

But you allocated my response to a different one than to which it was originally allocated. Then you tried to ridicule me on the basis that it was an incoherent response! It was the way that you presented, but it was a misrepresentation!
Then you 'claimed' a win. It's not a pi$$ing competition!

Go back and compare your presentation of my response with the original.

Naaah, second thoughts, just go back to the start, miss three turns, and then take a card from Chance, 'cos that would apply to your outlook.

 

[Himaginn]

Article 50 doesn't apply!

I said it doesn't have to apply. Not my words, I quoted the official vote leave page.

So show some credible source, not a Brexiter MEP's gobshoite

 

[Himaginn]

EU regulation is governed by the dollar. Have you forgoten the Euro?

"The almighty dollar" is a well known phrase; it's a synonym for money. Rhetoric again. And I didn't say EU regulations, I said a Brexit (i.e. trade) deal.

So market forces will determine the Brexit deal?
Not EU Parliament, not EU Commissioners, not EU Council, not the other 27 national governments, but market forces?
You're having a laugh!

 

[Himaginn]

I've transferred this quote and my response here so as not to mess up SS's thread.

Just want to say that not all fat people are lazy. I know that weight gain is all about the relationship between energy in and energy out, but some people (me being a good example) have multiple health conditions that mean losing weight is very difficult.

Amongst many other issues, I have pituitary issues leading to:

being very ill.(my words not SS's)

Are you ill then?

No, because he hasn't got morbid cravings to be shackled to the EU, like some folk around here

At least SS hasn't been warned, twice, for telling lies:

.the Vote Leave claim that the UK sends £350 million a week to Brussels, despite a second warning from the head of the UK Statistics Authority, ..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...n-Gordon-Brown-join-EU-vote-battleground.html

 

[Himaginn]

Decision making, selecting from the available options, a definition:

The thought process of selecting a logical choice from the available options.
When trying to make a good decision, a person must weight the positives and negatives of each option, and consider all the alternatives. For effective decision making, a person must be able to forecast the outcome of each option as well, and based on all these items, determine which option is the best for that particular situation.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/decision-making.html
Now why can't Brexiters tell us what the model for UK-EU trading will be, in the case of Brexit, so we can weigh up the options?
Currently there are only two options available to us: IN or OUT.
The Outers are dreaming up a utopia if we Exit, but without the necessary base lines on which to project economic forecasts, it is a leap of faith into the unknown.
The Remainers, at least, have a base line on which to project economic forecasts, supported and emphasised by the G7. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36394905


Systems thinking in the case for Brexit.
We've been told so many times that the Brexiters want to "take back control".
Applying a systems thinking to this idea:
Systems exist in two types of environment, the main, inner environment where everything can be considered as part of the system, or as a controlled or controllable part of that system.
Then there's the other environment, outside the boundary, that is an environment that influences, or is influenced by the system. But it is not controllable.
The Brexiters keep saying that they want to take back control, but i would argue that the things that they want to control are outside the boundary. They can only be influenced, or the system is influenced, by those things that Brexiters want to control.
For instance: Immigration (or net migration)
Brexiters say that they want to control EU migration, they give the impression that it would be so easy, at a stroke of a pen.
However, it's far more complex than that.
In addition, so far, non-EU is nearly half of the equation, and that has not been controlled so far. How will it magically become controllable in the case of Brexit, especially when they Border Agency have their hands full of other issues?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

The Remainers, at least, have a base line on which to project economic forecasts

They certainly do, although the Brexiters would argue that we can jump ship from the blue line to the red line (not overnight, obviously, but in less than 5 years say).
Commonwealth and Europe share of world real GDP (PPP, Million $) 1971-2015:

http://www.worldeconomics.com/paper...or_0e53b963-bce5-4ba1-9cab-333cedaab048.paper

In addition, so far, non-EU is nearly half of the equation, and that has not been controlled so far. How will it magically become controllable in the case of Brexit, especially when they Border Agency have their hands full of other issues?

Most are students, so they're not really half the equation. Apply the same visa rules to EU immigrants and it's reasonable to suppose the EU demographic would drop down to the same proportions as non-EU, i.e. mostly students.

 

[Himaginn]

Your graphs refers to the Eurozone! You plonker!
In case you haven't realised we're not in the Eurozone!
There's only 18 countries out of the 28 EU countries in Eurozone.
Did you think you could slip that past us without anyone noticing?

The economy of the European Union generates a GDP (nominal) of about €14.3 trillion (US$18.5 trillion in 2014) and a GDP (PPP) of about €12.7 trillion (US$16.8 trillion in 2014) according to the International Monetary Fund.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union
That's one million times the Commonwealth GDP!
16,000,000 compared to 16,000,000,000,000

Did you get your info' from the DM again?
Additionally, according to your graphs, in 1973 the GDP for Europe was less than GDP for the Eurozone. How did they work that out?
I'll tell you how. They took the 2015 Eurozone members and compared it to the 1973 EU members. Talk about mixing and matching to make statistics work for you.

If the 60% of EU migrants were not allowed entry, who's going to do those jobs?
We'd have to allow more immigrants from non-EU countries to meet the shortfall. So migration will not be affected.
And we'd have lost the freedom to live or work anywhere in EU.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Your graphs refers to the Eurozone! You plonker!
In case you haven't realised we're not in the Eurozone!

Any way you slice it, the trend is the same for the EU.

 

[Himaginn]

Yet again you've provided some argument without showing us your source of information.
Are you worried we'll see past the propaganda?

Show us similar information for emerging markets and I'll explain why EU has reduced share of global GDP.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Yet again you've provided some argument without showing us your source of information.

The source is written on the graph.

Show us similar information for emerging markets and I'll explain why EU has reduced share of global GDP.

Do India and China count?

http://earlywarn.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/global-market-shares.html[/QUOTE]

 

[JohnD]

It's interesting that Gerry likes to concentrate on "share" and not on "production".

Is anybody surprised that when an underdeveloped but very large third-world country industrialises, educates its population, and put women into the workforce, its production grows?

Gerry hopefully suggests that "Brexiters would argue that we can jump ship from the blue line to the red line"

We can do that quite easily. All we have to do is to destroy our infrastructure back to the conditions prevailing in 1970 in India, and kill most of our educated engineers, doctors, teachers, plumbers and builders, achieve a low start-point, and then see ourselves grow as we claw our way back to recovery for 50 years. A growth from a low base might look impressive. But why would we want to put ourselves back to that disastrous condition, just for an impressive-looking growth line?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

All we have to do is to destroy our infrastructure back to the conditions prevailing in 1970 in India,

Don't be ridiculous, Bernard. We should take advantage of their burgeoning revolution; cash in on their success; join them not copy them. Besides, are you suggesting the Commonwealth's growth has been thanks only to India?

 

[JohnD]

No, Andrew. But if you would like to show me some more Commonwealth countries that have experienced massive growth since the 1970's, it will be interesting to see if they were starting off from a low base, or if they were starting off from an educated, industrialised and developed base, like the Western European countries.

It would also be interesting to see how their productivity today compares with modern industrialised Western European countries like ours.

I'm willing to wager that if you had a 12-year old child, and you plotted his increase in height over the last ten years, it would greatly surpass your own increase in height over the same period. However that does not mean than in another twelve years he will be twenty feet tall.

 

[Himaginn]

Yet again you've provided some argument without showing us your source of information.

The source is written on the graph.

But that is not the source of your graph!
I've searched the IMF site, and googled for that graph: zilch, nada, rien, nowt.
Additionally IMF would not have annotated the graph in such a way.
So be a good lad and tell us where you got your information from.
Provide the link of your information so we can check out the original article, see if our understanding and interpretation matches yours.

Show us similar information for emerging markets and I'll explain why EU has reduced share of global GDP.

Do India and China count?

http://earlywarn.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/global-market-shares.html

Exactly, as John has indicated, and I suspected, it's the emerging economies that have taken the share of global trade. All the economies have seen growth in their GDP. It's just that economies like China, India, Brazil, etc have seen massive growth (sometimes at the expense of the climate) because of the lower cost of labour.
As John said, do you want to loose all that work-place protection for greater growth in GDP, especially when the EU does have growth and work-place protection.

 

[Himaginn]

Maybe the pensioners are now realising that if the economy crashes even pensions will be affected, and certainly any savings/investments.
Already the financial market is responding to the polls.

I think I'll apply to the Treasury for a script writer's job:

The Treasury has warned that millions of current and future pensioners will be worse off if the UK leaves the European Union.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36393513