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who is at fault
- Thread starter Ihavenojob
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Is there cctv facing rearwards from the front of the train fitted? If not, then as Big all says the door interlocks have failed, meaning some maintenance person is at fault, or the design is at fault. ,,,,, Or, is this a case for guards on all trains (the reason Southern Rail are on strike at the moment) ??
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Mindless passengers sitting inside the train are to blame for not pulling the emergency chain or dialing 0800 111 999! That woman must have leaked some gas as being dragged! Not the drivers fault if he can't see behind as he has to see forward for other things like signals.
So yes boils down to passenger safety and not having guards on trains.
So yes boils down to passenger safety and not having guards on trains.
Automatic shutting doors should have pressure sensitive release built in - surely?
Otherwise people will be killed a thousand times over on a daily basis in lifts, trains, cars etc.
The train driver is the second line of defence if the technology fails and should ensure passenger safety.
Relying on fellow passengers is a moot point. This could happen on an empty train.
The victim could have also been a child and could now be dead.
Otherwise people will be killed a thousand times over on a daily basis in lifts, trains, cars etc.
The train driver is the second line of defence if the technology fails and should ensure passenger safety.
Relying on fellow passengers is a moot point. This could happen on an empty train.
The victim could have also been a child and could now be dead.
How quickly do these train doors close ?
Were the doors already closing when she went to get on the train ?
Was it a case that she saw the dors were closing but still tried to board the train ?
Did she think that by gettting her hand into the door it would prevent the train moving and that then the doors would re-open to allow her to board the train.
Yes maybe there was an error by the driver but if there was an error it was an error due to a dangerous situation created by the passenger who tried to board the train after the doors had begun to close.
Were the doors already closing when she went to get on the train ?
Was it a case that she saw the dors were closing but still tried to board the train ?
Did she think that by gettting her hand into the door it would prevent the train moving and that then the doors would re-open to allow her to board the train.
Yes maybe there was an error by the driver but if there was an error it was an error due to a dangerous situation created by the passenger who tried to board the train after the doors had begun to close.
the way the doors work
driver checks its safe to press the door close button??
driver presses the door close button warning alarm sounds at all open doors at that stage all orange body side lights are on as the doors are not "locked" they can be open or closed but fully under local control although driver closing the doors deactivates the local open buttons
driver checks for the cab interlock light all yellow lights now out
interlock light is required to get traction for movement
the driver should double check before moving
the doors are either open or fully shut
modern doors have a sensitive edge to allow a more "controlled" safety margin
doors reopening like a lift are not an option as that removes control from the train crew allowing regular travelers to stop the doors closing willy nilly causing a 10min delay to any rush hour service
driver checks its safe to press the door close button??
driver presses the door close button warning alarm sounds at all open doors at that stage all orange body side lights are on as the doors are not "locked" they can be open or closed but fully under local control although driver closing the doors deactivates the local open buttons
driver checks for the cab interlock light all yellow lights now out
interlock light is required to get traction for movement
the driver should double check before moving
the doors are either open or fully shut
modern doors have a sensitive edge to allow a more "controlled" safety margin
doors reopening like a lift are not an option as that removes control from the train crew allowing regular travelers to stop the doors closing willy nilly causing a 10min delay to any rush hour service
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What if the doors had "soft" edges of say 2 cm ( ~ 1 inch ) and closed with the hard edges 4 cm apart. Then there would be a gap between the hard edges of 4 cm and this gapwould be filled with soft material ( stiff rubber for example ) that would not be able to grip an arm or bag strap tight enough to prevent the arm or strap being pulled out.
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No idea of the safety mechanisms, but there are two cases here:
Criminal case against the driver.
The news doesn't go in to detail, but he is being charged with willful neglect, so there must be some evidence to suggest that he ignored safety procedures so badly, that it could meet the criminal negligence test. If systems failed, then it would be the opperator in the dock or the maintenance firm or all 3.
Civil damages claim
80:20 or 90:10 - I think their is a contributory negligence argument, that sticking your hand in a closing door is likely to contribute to your risk of injury.
Criminal case against the driver.
The news doesn't go in to detail, but he is being charged with willful neglect, so there must be some evidence to suggest that he ignored safety procedures so badly, that it could meet the criminal negligence test. If systems failed, then it would be the opperator in the dock or the maintenance firm or all 3.
Civil damages claim
80:20 or 90:10 - I think their is a contributory negligence argument, that sticking your hand in a closing door is likely to contribute to your risk of injury.
soft edges where introduced as where door closing alarms as improvements over the years
i havent been a train driver since 1994 so any knowledge off advancements since then are through the grapevine or through reading about them so very limited information unless i have had along read or conversation about them
i havent been a train driver since 1994 so any knowledge off advancements since then are through the grapevine or through reading about them so very limited information unless i have had along read or conversation about them
a casual glance at the monitors before moving off when you get the interlock is second nature as its common sense and required but with several hundred off thousand off door closes under your belt without incident other things happening can cause a distraction
when someone asks you what colour was the last signal you may not remember it was a green without thinking as it requires no action and it may be the 300th green signal that week but a "caution "signal will off course get your attention
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I'm assuming this is section 17 Railway Regulation Act 1842 - pretty old law, but suggests his conduct was more than missing a key check. Its a fairly well paid job compared to say a bus driver, there is a level of expectation that a driver is on top of things. Some airline pilots aren't paid much more.
I think, you will find that most rail doors are able to detect resistance against closing, if they detect appreciable resistance they may open again, (as are now required in electrically operated windows on cars) This obviously wasn't the case here, either an interlocking or sensing mechanism failed here, that told the driver all was OK to proceed.
Driver can or should only be able to proceed if signals from door sensors and interlocks satisfied a fail safe condition to proceed, if this condition was not met, the train may not have started to move, but there could have been an override button provided for instances when doors are playing up, or becomes faulty, then under those circumstances a driver may be able to get the train moving for instance to clear the path for other trains and take his faulty train to a rail workshop for repairs, ( I don't know but I am guessing, sure a train cannot be left standing at a station just cause of a door failure) or unless the faulty door had a manual override switch, where a driver would have to physically get down to the faulty door to trigger the override button, and manually shut the door locked before he could proceed)
if the driver did push an override button from his cab, and started to move without checking if it was a door playing up or a genuinely stuck passenger, then he may be found guilty of negligence.
Driver can or should only be able to proceed if signals from door sensors and interlocks satisfied a fail safe condition to proceed, if this condition was not met, the train may not have started to move, but there could have been an override button provided for instances when doors are playing up, or becomes faulty, then under those circumstances a driver may be able to get the train moving for instance to clear the path for other trains and take his faulty train to a rail workshop for repairs, ( I don't know but I am guessing, sure a train cannot be left standing at a station just cause of a door failure) or unless the faulty door had a manual override switch, where a driver would have to physically get down to the faulty door to trigger the override button, and manually shut the door locked before he could proceed)
if the driver did push an override button from his cab, and started to move without checking if it was a door playing up or a genuinely stuck passenger, then he may be found guilty of negligence.
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on older trains its a electrical sensor tells the door is closed when it "makes" the circuit
the doors are adjusted so any obstruction will stop the hard rubber edge closing enough
in other words its the physical door position rather whats happening around the edges that decide if it "locks shut"
with a sensitive edge the deformation off that edge is an additional circuit to be broken by an object
the doors will be adjust to fine tolerances off perhaps 5mm
all train doors are operated by air and controlled by an electrical circuit
the doors are adjusted so any obstruction will stop the hard rubber edge closing enough
in other words its the physical door position rather whats happening around the edges that decide if it "locks shut"
with a sensitive edge the deformation off that edge is an additional circuit to be broken by an object
the doors will be adjust to fine tolerances off perhaps 5mm
all train doors are operated by air and controlled by an electrical circuit
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