Wiring a French extension lead

[IJWS15]

Bought myself a plug and socket (Legrand) last time I was in France to make up an extention.

Neither the plug or socket have markings to indicate live/neurtral (or French equivalent) nor is there anything in the instructions.

Does it matter?

If it does which pin should be live (looking at the mating face with the earth socket at the top.

 

[winston1]

Right

 

[IJWS15]

Thanks

Sat down to do this a coulple of nights ago and realised you/I didn't specify plug or socket . . . . . . .

 

[solair]

Same layout as a BS1363 UK/Ireland plug

Terre = Earth
Phase = Phase/Live
Neutre = Neutral

 

[mointainwalker]

Not related to topic but the mention of Legrand always upsets me.

The most outrageously-priced electrical components ( at retail level) I have encountered, compounded by their ridiculous modular system ( need to buy about 6 or 7 individual parts to construct a double-socket at a cost of about pnds 14.

 

[solair]

Legrand, like MK in the UK/IRL, are high priced but they also make very high quality products and they're made in France usually.

When it comes to electrical fittings, you often get what you pay for.

I've found MK products to be very expensive, but they also last and cause absolutely no problems during their life cycle.

And you're also supporting jobs in France, rather than outsourcing them to the cheapest possible labour market when you buy most of the Legrand items.

 

[Monkeh]

I've found MK products to be very expensive, but they also last and cause absolutely no problems during their life cycle.

Tell that to all the jammed sockets and arcing switches I've replaced in this house!

 

[mointainwalker]

@ soalair

i have no substantiation for this other than my own observations, however:

Legrand has 100% presence in retail outlets and takes up 70% -80% of sales space even in major sheds.

The wiring regulations require ( IMO ) a heavy over-installation of sockets etc in homes e.g. a comms socket in every room except toilet, min 1 plug socket per 5 m2 living space per room, external light above every external door and more.

Once again my opinion is that this company has a near monopoly on retail distribution and uses its representation on industry bodies to force through legislation tjhat benefits them out of all proportion .

I hate the ****s. I would like to see them bankrupt.

Edit: One anomaly about France is they don't like normal market rules of competition. The winner is likely to be someone who has a major "in" with the authorities, which is particularly easy when you are a French "champion"

 

[mointainwalker]

.@solair

When I was working as an export -salesman, my customers included Leroy-Merlin but not Legrand although we had contacts and so I have some insight into the company/industry,

That is actually irrelevant however as my point is that protection strangles a country. Prices are much higher here than in the UK, mostly down to regulation preventing competition which directly promotes higher social costs.

The last two French governments have made numerous (illegal per EU law) trade/commerce interventions to prevent take-over or sale of major French companies ,Because Brussels consists of a bunch of cowardly ****s they won't face up to a belligerent French government,

After all my talk, I just want to say that major French producers are hugely protected in France and rip-off the consumer to a huge extent.

THAT IS WHY I HATE LEGRAND,

P.S. Companies that are protected from real competition normally end up producing sub-standard products at premium prices and often end up on the scrap heap years later when rvrybody cottons on.

 

[solair]

I've seen standard CEE 7/4 sockets in some French houses i.e. normal Schuko rather than the French earth-pin variety.

It was just a case of someone wanting designer sockets which were to German specs rather than French.

I assume that's not quite legal? even if they accept the same plugs thesedays.

 

[IJWS15]

Surely if prices are that high others would be jumping in to the market with competing products whicdh meet the French specs.

Or do Legrand manage to stop that as well?

 

[solair]

There seems to be plenty of other brands on the market in France in my experience :

Legrand, Ebenoid, Arnould and quite a few others too.

We used a range of fancy sockets and switches from Hager in France.

I don't really think Legrand is THAT dominant, at least no more so than Siemens is in Germany or MK in the UK.

In fact, I would actually go as far as saying that it was easier to get a wider range of fittings in France as, other than the sockets, their gear is generally the same as Germany and most of Northern Europe, so there was a very wide range of fancy fittings available that you can't get to fit UK/Ireland boxes.

Legrand is just an old trusted brand.

For example: that's a Hager socket

minus its front plate.

 

[mointainwalker]

@solair

UK sockets would, from memory , meet French specs. The requirements are earthing-arrangement and shields over the other two pins : nothing about pin shapes.

A friend of mine had his house approved by the Consuel ( quango responsible for issuing certificate before EDF connect supply) and they had no objection that he had mixed French/Uk sockets.

Since I live in the Alps, I generally only visit two medium-sized sheds and occasionally one big one, because of large distances. It is possible that the Legrand rep for Rhone Alpes is very good at his job and that skews my view of availability.

Builders merchants pretty much 100% Legrand, but this also fits in with what I think is their general trading principle that they are offering best professional quality.

Medium DIY sheds: Top range of Legrand covering all items. Lower price with some Arnoux items and budget range of sockets and switches from Debflex = few items.

@IJWS

I don't know if you know the purchasing and stocking policies for retail chains, but they have a given space for any range of products and bringing something in involves throwing something out.

It would be hugely unusual for a shed to kick out the no 1 national manufacturer , and anyone replacing them would have to offer the complete range of all products. Legrand will hold their shelf-space because of reputation. advertising, ability to sell at high prices and probably relationships.

I do recognise that my personal feelings about this brand are not shared by everyone, especially the retailers who benefit from their large add-on.

This thing started for me when I wanted to buy double-sockets. If you want this from Legrand you have to buy:

1) 1 double front-plate
2) 2 single-socket surrounds
3) 2 single sockets

There may be other bits, but it's modular, so then you have to inter-connect the two sockets internally !! Who wants to do that at a cost of E 15-25 depending on range ?


After that I looked around for a long time and found a single-piece double-socket in a distant large store but when i got them (bought 10 osr so ) home, discovered I had to inter-connect them too

 

[fiatman]

If you dont do it right you could kill yourself.
If you go by the french to 13a adapter it is upside down so when correct way up with the 13a live on the right, the french socket is live on the left.
This has been confirmed by other manufacturers that have markings showing live left and neutral right.
In France the trip switches disconnect live and neutral when there is a fault, much more sensible than in the uk, as neutral can be live to earth with 410v.
Barry

 

[Paul_C]

Putting the "live" side on the right (with earth pin uppermost) is really only a convention for French sockets, not an absolute standard, which is why there are no markings. A good many cordsets with CEE 7/7 plugs are wired with brown to the left and blue to the right anyway, so there's still no guarantee of polarity being correct whichever way round the socket is connected.

The numbers are probably dwindling fast now, if indeed any still exist at all, but at one time it was also quite common in some places in France for 220V to be derived across two phases of a 127/220V three-phase distribution network, meaning that both sides of the socket would always be at 127V to earth and it would make no difference whatsoever which way round they were connected.

In France the trip switches disconnect live and neutral when there is a fault, much more sensible than in the uk, as neutral can be live to earth with 410v.

It would take a pretty drastic set of faults for the neutral to be at 400V or so to earth.