Wood burner install

[dormermike]

I want a wood burner in my living room so got 3 installers to give a quote. I've had 3 different opinions on what can and can't be done.

For example the current chimney breast is fake.. it's a stud wall boxed out thing. One of the three installers says he can install a twin wall flue system with 50mm to combustibles so no problem. But, breast is only 31cm deep hence other two installers say it's too tight and need's to be rebuilt.

Then there is the fact I'm in a bungalow. 2 of the 3 installers say there might be too much free standing flue but won't know till they put it in. Surely they can figure out from like, using a tape measure or something.

This lot are all certified proper installers.

Can see why the other guy in the other thread installing himself.

Any advice welcome


Thanks
DormerMike

 

[motorbiking]

It makes a different on the output capacity too and also if the stove is certified not to heat the harth up above 100 deg C

I personally found I had to read the building regs thoroughly as my installers also certified were a bit clueless about the detail and wanted me to rip the floor up and increase the size of my concrete harth. Fortunately my stove didn't need it.

 

[bernardgreen]

Building regulations apply, Part J relate to flues.

www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADJ_2010.pdf

HETAS technical will almost certainly provide basic advice by telephone as to required space between flue liner and combustable material ( joists etc etc )

http://www.hetas.co.uk/consumer/regulations/

 

[dormermike]

Thanks
Coming to the conclusion I need to read the regs in detail. In which case I'll fit it myself as that's what I was expecting to pay for...the knowledge!

 

[bernardgreen]

In which case I'll fit it myself as that's what I was expecting to pay for..

You will then have to convince your insurance company that you were competent to install it and competent to certify it as being "safe".

 

[dormermike]

You will then have to convince your insurance company that you were competent to install it and competent to certify it as being "safe".

Yes crazy isn't it. The guys coming to quote didn't apparently know the regs as well as they should and yet can somehow be considered competent enough to certify the installation as safe...

 

[geraldthehamster]

The correct way to keep your own installation regular is to notify Building Control and get them to sign it off. Then you shouldn't have insurance issues.

Cheers
Richard

 

[mrkjd]

Thought I'd resurrect this thread rather than post new. I am thinking of installing a woodburner in our bungalow and constructing a false chimney breast around the twin wall flue. How much space do I have to leave between the flue and stud wall chimney breast. Do I have to vent the chimney breast?

I have also seen online a diagram of an installation which shows a vented collar where the flue goes through the ceiling into the loft but other examples don't do this and just use a normal collar. Which is correct? I thought a vent collar would allow any fire to spread into the ceiling space.

Finally, I am trying to decide whether it would be better to take the flue directly up and out of the roof (which would be towards the lowest part of the roof and require a long external pipe to comply with regs) or run the flue inside the loft towards the apex then out therefore keeping the external pipework shorter ( and improving draft through flue length?). Can anybody help me with planning this?

 

[amfisted]

Apologies for hijacking your resurrection, but we are also in the throes of arranging installation of a wood burning or multi fuel stove.

We live in a 70s bungalow, our flue goes through the middle of the property in the largeish living room, and is clay pot lined.

I've had one quote well in excess of 2 grand, including supply of an insert stove at a cost of over one thousand quid ("insert" because for this quote I requested a price for an installation which would cause least possible disturbance to the existing fireplace, which currently features a coal effect gas fire), and another, less specific but equally frightening estimate for fitting a freestanding model, which would obviously require opening up the fireplace.

I've read lots of stuff about DIY stove fitting, but I still feel inclined to employ a HETAS installer rather than do it myself then spend time worrying whether I've ticked all the boxes.

There are, of course, lots of vids on Youtube which soothingly explain the steps to fitting and make it sound like falling off a (burning) log, but personally I'd rather entrust the job to someone who can provide the insurance guarantee with the minimum of fuss. So I've got two more chaps, sole traders rather than shops that supply and fit their own stoves, coming next week to give quotes.

Meantime we went to a stove showroom today to check out whats available, and the salesperson told us that the cost of installation should be roughly equal to the cost of the stove itself. Presumably that equation works unless you go for a stupidly cheap, or ridiculously expensive model.

 

[Doggit]

For example the current chimney breast is fake.. it's a stud wall boxed out thing

Are you certain it's fake, or does it just sound hollow; does it go up through the loft space, and is there a chimney on the roof.

Thought I'd resurrect this thread rather than post new. I am thinking of installing a woodburner in our bungalow and constructing a false chimney breast around the twin wall flue. How much space do I have to leave between the flue and stud wall chimney breast. Do I have to vent the chimney breast

As you have no existing chimney, I'd be inclined to have a freestanding burner, and make a feature of the twinwall flue. Alternatively, use a cheaper single wall flue, build a brick chimney round it, and then fill it with micafil. You need a flue length of 4.5m, so this may dictate where it's best to site the flue.

This link may give a bit of info on twin wall flues
http://specflue.com/catalogue/product/twin-wall-chimney-systems

We live in a 70s bungalow, our flue goes through the middle of the property in the largeish living room, and is clay pot lined

If I'm right in thinking that - unlike a normal open chimney - this is round clay liner inside the chimney, then it only needs to be topped and tailed, so I fail to see how the installation should cost so much. But a good builder would be able to open up the chimney quite easily, and this would allow you a much greater range of stoves to choose from, plus you'd get space around the stove to dry out wood prior to use.

 

[bernardgreen]

notify Building Control and get them to sign it off. Then you shouldn't have insurance issues.

Doesn't work with all insurance companies. They formulate what is acceptable and the risk of having to pay a claim in a different way.

 

[amfisted]

Doggit wrote:
"If I'm right in thinking that - unlike a normal open chimney - this is round clay liner inside the chimney, then it only needs to be topped and tailed, so I fail to see how the installation should cost so much. But a good builder would be able to open up the chimney quite easily, and this would allow you a much greater range of stoves to choose from, plus you'd get space around the stove to dry out wood prior to use."

Thanks for that; I'm pretty sure it is a round clay liner which has been fitted in sections.

Certainly the bottom portion which is visible when you stick your face into the fireplace looks round, as did the rest of the flue when I used a mirror and head torch to investigate a potential blockage last night (see another thread).

I too am at a loss to explain why the installation quote was so high. Hopefully the sole traders who are coming to give quotes next week will take a more studied view of the actual costs.

 

[charliegolf]

In the foolishness that goes with yoof, I fitted a second hand wood burner in my house. Myself. I had the chimney cleaned, fitted an angle iron 'ring' inside it, on which I laid a fireproof board into which I fashioned a rodding access. Gooped everything with fire cement, checked loads for good draw and Robert was my father's brother! I never had a problem, save for humping tonnes of timber! Probably wouldn't now.

 

[mrkjd]

Thanks Doggit. 4.5m will mean running thru inside of loft as I think going directly up and out would be more like 3.5m. Which I guess means I need twin wall at least for the section in the loft?

I'm afraid the twin wall flue as feature doesn't satisfy the missus.

What about the collar with the vent around it thing I mentioned - do you think one is needed?

Trouble with building a brick chimney is that I will have to come up thru the wooden floor etc - all seems a bit of a faff compared with knocking up a few noggins and plasterboard!

Game plan was to do the twin wall flue myself then get BC to Ok it before boxing in later.

 

[dormermike]

Doggit yes my chimney breast is fake as I have no proper chimney anywhere in my bungalow.

I'm putting mine in the corner but I guess if I have any questions I should start another thread as this one's been hijacked haha