Worried about staining pine floor - Bona Mega finish

[pilsbury]

I'm imminently about to sand my 1925 lounge floorboards. They are pine and in pretty decent order. I have done some research and concluded a good combination is Bona mix and fill plus followed by 3 coats of Bona Mega. I'd like a subtle sheen and am torn between matt and silk matt. The Bona stuff seems to get rave reviews.

Anyhow, that's the finish..... at present, the floorboards are varnished quite dark. I'm guessing its a coloured varnish sitting on top of the floor as where it has scuffed, I can see the pine colour underneath. I quite like the darker look.

When I sand back, I'm bound to get that fresh bright pine, something I don't really want. I'm after a medium/dark oak. However, I've read articles telling people not to stain pine as it ends up patchy due to the open grain of the wood. I've also watched a host of "pro" youtube vids staining pine and in my opinion it looks a mess - exactly as described in my reading.

How can I darken my pine fairly uniformly? At present, my only thoughts are a coloured finish that sits on top of the wood as opposed to sinking into the surface at different rates. Can you add pigment to Bona Mega? Is there a better way to stain pine? Is there a couloured product as good as the Bona gear?

Help appreciated to avoid me making a grave error and taking a sledge hammer to the lot!

 

[getitdone]

There are plenty of stains out there that really aren't that tricky to do evenly! Go for a spirit-based one though (as opposed to water-based where when you apply the Bona Mega which is also water-based, it will redillute the stain's colourants and can result in a cloudy look) and go with the run of the boards when applying and clothing off the excess.

Or, try a Hard Waxoil? Endless pigmented ones around which are easy to apply and easy to repair if you damage it. Plus there are now plenty of sheen levels around to finish it to the satin you want.

If it is a lacquer you're determined to go for, it is worth spending the extra few quid on Bona's two-pack Traffic rather than the one-pack Mega. Would mean you need to mix the hardener (only mix enough to do one coat at a time as once mixed, you have to use it or throw it!) but it is more durable than than their Mega.

 

[pilsbury]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions.

I had thought of hard wax oils, but decided against as they don't seem to be as hard wearing as the bona laquers from what I've read. The repairability sounds good, but I get the feeling I'd have to recoat yearly to keep it looking pristine. How well do they colour floorboards? Better and more uniform than a stain? Do you have any recommendations as I initially read a lot about Osmo products, then read some horror stories followed up by answers suggesting pros do not use Osmo as a rule. Seems more of a consumer (read inferior) product.

I shall certainly bear your Bona Traffic idea in mind. Sanding and finishing is not something I want to do with any regularity so the more durable the better..... hence my concerns about hardwax oil

 

[getitdone]

Well, HWO and lacquers both have their pros and cons. Lacquers on the upside are durable but they are a topical coating (rather than HWOs which are more of a penetrative coating) So sitting as a single layer on the surface of the wood, lacquer is tough but if you scratch it (drag a heavy piece of furniture or whatever) and you scratch through to the wood, a repair is effectively a complete sand back and re-seal. HWO can be repaired, either just on the scratch by lightly keying back and reapplying, or if you've used a combination of different HWOs and/or stains to to build up to a fancy multi-tinted effect, sanding back just that board and following the same recipe to recover the original look.

In terms of types or brands of HWO, you get what you pay for. The cheap brands like Blanchon and Fiddes do offer a wide range of tints and colours, but they are soft relative to better brands (if you apply two coats of either of these two to an offcut of wood, sprinkle a few drops of water on and leave overnight and you'll see the next day the cloudy mist spots where the water has stained down to the wood fibres) Brands like CiraNova do fare a little bit better, but the real winners are the HWOs from companies like Osmo and Treatex (both German but I'm sure that's coincidence!) Osmo is a thicker product and to my eye leaves too much of a visible presence on the floor surface. The higher viscosity also makes it quite a bit trickier to apply. Treatex by comparison is ultra durable (even more so than the Bona Mega lacquer) and resists stains like no other, easy to apply so easy to achieve an even finish without the need for buffing machines etc, and it cures deep into the wood fibre. The only drawback is the limited range of colours they offer. They've got a couple of dark oak type colour tones so these may be right for you. They do make a maintenance soap that has the actual original ingredients of the HWO in it and chemically keys to the surface to rebuild all the little micro scratches from grit being trodden and other scuffs. Only needs to be mopped on.

Whether you go for lacquer or HWO, the result will only be as good as your prep. Take your time with the sanding - start coarse at say 40 or 60 grit sand paper to get the worst of the existing coating off and then work up to 80 and then 100 grit. Finish no finer than 120 grit (the principle being that these coating products needs an open grain in order to penetrate the wood and achieve a sound mechanical key. if you go past 120 you start to close the grain off) But yes, sanding is a rubbish job so totally get what you say that you don't want to be doing it too often!

 

[pilsbury]

Great info. I'll have a look at the Treatex stuff

 

[chappers]

but if you only go down to 120 you will almost certainly see slight sanding lines if using a rotary edge sander and as getitdone says going to 250 wont open the grain so much.
I stained our living room floor with an antique pine stain build the colour up slowly with a cloth and it shouldn't be patchy.
I use bona mega all the time, did our living room about 5 years ago(four coats) and it still looks like new apart from just inside the doorway which could do with a freshen up. Silk matt will give you a light sheen, it has worn so well that a couple of dogs hairs that got stuck in it are still there 5 years later

 

[pilsbury]

Cheers Chappers

 

[getitdone]

Most sanding contractors will finish at 120 grit for Hard Waxoils or sometimes as high as 180 grit when prepping for lacquer (as lacquers these days are almost all water based, the wood grain tends to rise and open when exposed to water so providing the mechanical key to the first coat) There can be some variance either side of these grit numbers depending on the species of wood being sanded or the final effect desired.

In the event of applying a colour tone or other pigmented hard waxoil for example, finishing at 100 or used 100 (the grit particles on the sandpaper round off after use and reduce its abrasive ability, so a used 100 would sit somewhere between 100 and 120), a contractor can leave the surface just fractionally more open which in turn provides more 'grab' for the pigment, resulting in a deeper colour of whatever pigment is being used. This level of control does require practise though so if you're new to all this, treat it as a principle rather than a rule. Better quality Hard Waxoils are more forgiving so pay a little more for them and you won't have to worry too much about this. Chappers makes the valid point above that if too coarse, sanding lines can be left. But practise on a scrap of wood first and you'll overcome that.

Most wood floor contractors I know treat Bona Mega as corner cutting. Bona Traffic will last longer. Also, Chappers above says that he used four coats - this isn't advisable. The chemical engineering in lacquers is pretty precise and scratch resistance is optimised at three coats. Any more and you go over the peak performance curve as the build is too high. One other point when applying lacquer - the raising grain I mentioned above from exposure to water will likely mean you need to 'de-nib' after the first coat. This is a soft sanding action that just clips the peaks of that raised grain to level off before the second coat and gives a smoother finish - even if you do it just very lightly with a 240 by hand and a single sweep of the sanding block over the whole area. If you use a Hard Waxoil, you won't need to worry about it as the reaction doesn't happen.

 

[pilsbury]

Great discussion and ideas from all - this is why this forum is great.

I must say I'm now swinging more towards the Treatex colour tones and hardwax oil clear as top coats. Will the Bona mix and fill still be a good bet and take the hardwax oil ok?

I'll make sure to post some pics before and after.

 

[getitdone]

The Bona Mix and Fill will like most of the similar offerings from other manufacturers take either lacquer or hardwax oil. These fillers are only good for cracks and thin/hairline gaps in floors on a solid substrate though. On joists there is too much movement so any filler in gaps will just drop out in a short period of time. If your floor is on joists, get hold of some slivers - there are some online suppliers who sell them by the bunch if you don't have a timber merchant nearby who offers them

 

[pilsbury]

Phew, that was a neat miss! Yes it is on joists. I'm aware of slivers but it looks a lot more time consuming than filling hence why I suggested the easy option. But if all the filler is gonna crack and drop out, then a refinish will be a bigger pain in the butt.

A ton of slivers and pva wood glue it is.

 

[chappers]

Most sanding contractors will finish at 120 grit for Hard Waxoils or sometimes as high as 180 grit when prepping for lacquer (as lacquers these days are almost all water based, the wood grain tends to rise and open when exposed to water so providing the mechanical key to the first coat) There can be some variance either side of these grit numbers depending on the species of wood being sanded or the final effect desired.

In the event of applying a colour tone or other pigmented hard waxoil for example, finishing at 100 or used 100 (the grit particles on the sandpaper round off after use and reduce its abrasive ability, so a used 100 would sit somewhere between 100 and 120), a contractor can leave the surface just fractionally more open which in turn provides more 'grab' for the pigment, resulting in a deeper colour of whatever pigment is being used. This level of control does require practise though so if you're new to all this, treat it as a principle rather than a rule. Better quality Hard Waxoils are more forgiving so pay a little more for them and you won't have to worry too much about this. Chappers makes the valid point above that if too coarse, sanding lines can be left. But practise on a scrap of wood first and you'll overcome that.

Most wood floor contractors I know treat Bona Mega as corner cutting. Bona Traffic will last longer. Also, Chappers above says that he used four coats - this isn't advisable. The chemical engineering in lacquers is pretty precise and scratch resistance is optimised at three coats. Any more and you go over the peak performance curve as the build is too high. One other point when applying lacquer - the raising grain I mentioned above from exposure to water will likely mean you need to 'de-nib' after the first coat. This is a soft sanding action that just clips the peaks of that raised grain to level off before the second coat and gives a smoother finish - even if you do it just very lightly with a 240 by hand and a single sweep of the sanding block over the whole area. If you use a Hard Waxoil, you won't need to worry about it as the reaction doesn't happen.

that's fair enough and ordinarily 3 coats is all I use, however on that occasion, the floor just ate the first coat. agree I would always de-nib the first coat usually with 300 grit.
From memory I think Bona recommend a minimum of 120 grit prior to finishing