BR for garage conversion internal wall- where are they??

[miljee]

Hi, can anyone either tell me where I can find the precise regulations governing the U value, fire-proofness and so forth needed for a new wall we're going to build across our garage to divide it into a living room and a smaller garage space, or what the actual regs are?

I am assuming a 100mm timber frame wall, infilled with Celotex, PB and skim (both sides) will comply- but I don't know what I'm complying to!

The wall needs to be sufficiently insulated and fireproof to whatever the regs are. And yes, I will need PP but can't submit the application unless I know what the BRs are!

Thanks

 

[miljee]

Someone? Someone out there who knows where I can find the actual regs I'm supposed to be complying to?!

Pleeze?!

 

[^woody^]

I've given you the details of the wall in your two other threads

For reference, Part A will deal with structure, Part B fire precautions, and Part L for thermal insulation

 

[miljee]

Thanks again, ^woody^.

I needed to know what I'd be quoting at the Council.

Also, I can't get a builder to quote on this job without a spec (fair enough) but if if my spec won't get PP it's a waste of time! And I can't find out what will and won't 'get through council' without a builder coming around to advise me!

Seeing the problem here?!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Hmm, tricky one, I see your predicament, if only there were people who did this kind of thing for a living.

That aside, you seem to be getting Building Regulations and Planning confused. Planning are not interested in the specification or construction or U Values etc only visible materials and appearance and change of use, loss of parking etc.

Any self respecting builder (who's done garage conversions before) will not need any drawings Planning or Building Regs in order to provide an estimate for a garage conversion assuming its straightforward. Many will be quite happy and should be experienced enough to undertake the whole lot ie getting you Building Regs Approval without any drawings at all. Though if you need planning then they are unlikely to get this for you and you'll need to sort this out yourself or employ someone to do it for you but as mentioned you don't need to know the specifics of the construction to do this aspect.

Seeing the problem here?!

 

[miljee]

Yes sure am!

Our council do a pre-planning thing where you pay them £48 (a go!) and they will look over your PP application and 'advise' but really- maybe I'm wrong- but I can't see that this conversion needs to be all singing and all dancing to that extent!

I appreciate entirely what you're saying about Planning not being interested in U values etc BUT, surely to get PP ( which I know I'll have to do myself) it'll expect me to have all my BR in a row, as it were?! (like ducks!). But I don't/didn't know what the BRs actually are!

I am having a real problem getting a builder to actually cite a sum of money without a spec (and it's not a difficult job!- 4 br detached 'estate' house, 12 years old with internal garage) but I'd've assumed a spec would include basics like 'frame and celotex partition wall' or 'block wall' but being a radiographer, not a builder, I only now know (thanks to ^woody^) that the former construction would meet thermal and fire BR! Builders are saying, on the phone 'Have you got your PP?', even 'Have you got yer drawing done?'- so I'm going

 

[^woody^]

Planning and building regulations are distinct and do not rely on or relate to each other. So for planning permission, you only need to put the relevent details for planning permission on your application drawing

For building regs, you would not normally use the full plans route, but rather do it on a building notice - which is without plans. The construction is so basic that no detailed specification is needed

If you can't find a builder who can do a garage conversion on a building notice, then keep looking until you do - as if they can't then they are probably not worth using in the first place

You just tell them its a basic garage conversion, and you want it built to building regulation standards under a building notice. Tell them you want a standard timber floor with 100mm celotex, dry-lined walls with 80mm celotex, a partition wall with 100mm celotex and insulate the roof with, you've guessed it 100mm celotex. Then they should get an inkling that you know what you are talking about.

Then just make sure your quote is itemised and states "all work quoted to conform to current building regulations" and its an all in fixed quote. Then you can compare like for like

 

[miljee]

Thanks ^woody^

Do you think I'd need 80mm Celotex on the other walls as well? Being an internal garage, it has the two 'internal' walls (one backs the hallway, the other the utility and one 'outer wall', the one on the outside of the house) which is 2 layered (that's not the right word, is it? but I mean an outer brick skin and an inner block skin). We'd have to put a frame up on that one anyway to PB over it as there are several pipes that need covering.

 

[^woody^]

Only external walls need insulating, and the same goes for ceilings

 

[miljee]

Yes, my thinking is that the ceiling, also being entirely 'internal' and currently unskimmed PB would be okay, except for a noise problem. I know that without great expense we can't alleviate that but I'm not sure there's any insulation between that ceiling and the floor above. I am going to cut a square out of the PB to have a look, actually! Even I have the skill to repair that!

 

[DevilDamo]

If you have an integral garage (i.e room above), you will also need to provide sound insulation... assuming the room above is habitable.

 

[miljee]

I'm hoping that the 'void' above the existing (unskimmed) PB on the ceiling is already insulated in some way- I shall cut a small hole in it and take a look- otherwise I may need, as already suggested, 80mm celotex 'sticking' to it (then skimmed). A friend who is related to 'the trade' (but isn't an actual builder) thought it might be a good idea if there is no existing insulation to take the PB down, insulate, then reinstall the PB so as not to lose any height in the room but I think this might add ££ to the final bill.

It strikes me- and correct me if I'm wrong!- that if we took the existing PB ceiling down, we could stick celotex to whatever lies above and skim the celotex, removing the need to reinstall the PB altogether BUT I'm not sure if BR require there to be an air space somewhere in there to vent potential condensation?