Can I have a conservatory without the internal door fitted?

[reggieroo]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking at having a very small conservatory or lean-to built onto my detached bungalow at the back. I only want to extend out by 1.6m & 3.5m across so having a door between would just be in the way. I basically want to extend my living room a small bit to fit in a table & chairs.

I have had a company come out & quote me for the job using triple glazing & a tinted glazed roof specifically for that type of build, used in orangeries etc. I asked about building regs & they said that their glass roof would pass building regs but the paperwork to do with planning & regs would be an extra £2500 so to save cash, I remove it afterwards myself or they can do it if I sign a disclaimer. I do have a very tight budget & can't afford the extra £2500.

I have no idea about the law with this sort of thing, people have just said that worst case I have to fit a door back in when I come to sell up. I have no plans to move any time in the forseable future.

I've read a bit about building regs & it is to do with heat loss having the external grade internal door fitted. So if they fit a glass roof that meets building regs shouldn't that be ok or will it then be subject to planning without the door fitted becoming an extension?

Any advise or options would be very much appreciated

 

[^woody^]

The conservatory seems to be permitted development so would not require formal planning permission - search here or google for details and limits of permitted development or ask the supplier

As for meeting building regs, yes you can remove the doors to the living room, but then you will need heat loss calculations (SAP calculations) to prove a certain level of thermal efficiency.

These calculations would be about £100, and then you need a bit of form filling and the b/regs fees so a few hundred £'s and nowhere near the £2.5k quoted

If you want to go down this route, then you need the SAP calculations done first, as they will tell you if you need to use a different type of glass, or need to do other work elsewhere - such as increase loft insulation ... or will tell you if the conservatory will never meet b/regs and so you need to keep the doors.

Or just have the conservatory built and take the doors off afterwards. Then put them back if need be when you come to sell ..... even this will be cheaper than the £2.5 k quote

 

[reggieroo]

Thanks for the help woody. My first thoughts were just to remove the doors after & then when it gets flagged when I come to sell in the future get some doors fitted.

I was just concerned about if I remove the doors will it then be classed as an extension & then subject to planning? What would happen if say a neighbour informed the planning office etc & they came round to check it out?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

The separating door is only relevant in terms of Building Regs. A door or not has no bearing on PD rules for a conservatory.

 

[reggieroo]

Ok, so no pp to worry about? What about the building regs etc? You will have to forgive me as I have no idea about these things having never before looked into anything like this or had any work done on the house.

 

[Richard C]

As they are Building Regs exempt, conservatories are rarely built to the same specifications as an extension. If you don’t have or remove the door between the cons & the rest of the building, it will no longer be Building Regulations exempt. It’s not just the thermal efficiency condition that must meet Building Regulations but everything to do with the construction, including the foundations! I think the price of your cons will rise considerably to meet BR on all other requirements.

 

[reggieroo]

I got quoted £7680 for it being around 1.6x3.5m. Half brick insulated with a cavity like the house walls & also insulated floor, triple glazing with a glazed roof that reflects the heat out in summer & in for the winter. I was also told that they would go 1m down for the footings.

 

[Richard C]

As I said it’s not just the thermal efficiency element, the whole method of construction & materials used will need to comply with current B Regs unless you keep it exempt. One metre deep footings is usually more than sufficient for a standard cons but it is the starting point for a much heavier extension type construction. The actual depth depends on soil type & local conditions; for example if you’ve got any trees or a water course within 5 meters the Building Inspector will probably make you go much deeper. Sounds ridiculous but a developer friend of mine has had to go down 2m on several occasions; you won’t know until LABC inspect the locality & the open trench. If your Cons is to comply with all aspects of Building Regs, you must either make a full plans submission (which gives pre-approval of detaile plans) or submit a Building Notice which is more ad-hock but in both cases the work must be inspected & approved at each stage by a BI or you wont get a completion certificate. You can’t just rely on your installation company saying “it passes Building Regulations” & I have my doubts at that price. Ask them how much the fee is for the Building Notice submission & relevant site inspections; & I wouldn’t believe all the sales blurb about the efficiency of heat reflective glass!

My own Cons is a lot bigger at 22sq/m & would probably cost me around £20k to have it replaced by a conservatory company today. I don’t have triple glazing but my Cons spec is; Argon filled “e” glass double glazing, a 5 wall 50mm polycarbonate roof, 1m footings, 100mm Celotex floor insulation within a reinforced concrete slab, 100mm internal block walls with base render/plaster finish, 100mm cavity insulated ½ walls, independent electrical circuits & round 4Kw of electric under floor heating. It would never pass Building Regs in many areas & cost’s a small fortune to heat in winter so we don’t use it November through March.

Not trying to throw a spanner in the works, just make sure you are aware of all the facts before you commit to the type of room you want.

 

[^woody^]

If a conservatory is built as a conservatory (ie no b/regs required) and then subsequently the doors to the main house removed, then b/regs approval will be required just in respect of the door removal (ie thermal efficiency)) and perhaps any fire precautions - such as area of glass to any boundary

It will not be necessary to do the full monty for foundations etc

It will be treated as a conversion, not a complete new build

 

[Richard C]

If a structure (whatever it is) is not B Regs exempt then, surely, it must comply with B Regs in all areas, not just it’s thermal efficiency.

 

[paulf1976]

Richard C is correct, if you change an exempt building into a non exempt building at a later date then the whole structure must comply to all elements of the building regs foundations and all.

 

[^woody^]

So say, for garage conversions, all foundations are checked and underpinned as necessary, and roof timbers resized and walls checked for slenderness ratio and lateral support etc etc ?

 

[paulf1976]

Garage conversions are different because some garages were controlled before they were converted so foundations and roof timbers may already meet the minimum requirements as a garage. Then to convert the garage into a useable room will require only requires certain work to 'convert it'. If you build a front wall where the garage door was then you will need to show the foundations are sufficient for that. The existing garage foundations should already be sufficient.

Some LA's might actually not control some garage conversions where the garage itself is an exempt building. Assuming there is no sleeping accommodation and the part p work is self certified of course.

I guess it depends on the garage.

 

[^woody^]

No, garage conversions, conservatory conversions, outhouse conversions, in fact anything with a conversion on the end, is a conversion, and the existing structure is not typically checked for compliance for every aspect of the b/regs

If the building is sound with no signs of distress they do not go through the malarkey of checking and upgrading everything

In context of the OP, if the conservatory is insualted when built and is sound, has a DPC, and meets the requirements of thermal efficiency via a SAP calc, and has ventilation, and meets any fire safety issues then that will be it

 

[paulf1976]

I beg to differ, is your experience based on one LA that you use? I know that doesn't't apply at our LA? Why check the DPC but not the foundations? Is the DPC more important? Also you'd have to expose work to see the DPC so you might aswell expose the founds while your there! (Although I'm sure the DPC might be visible in most cases)

You may be correct in some circumstances but I know most LA's would not take the risk and that some LA's may interpret the regs differently.

I would stake my reputation on most exempt conservatories not having sufficient founds to comply with current regs, and the regs must comply when the work becomes controlled too! Conservatory companies are unlikely to take account of proximity of trees and shared sewers either. Something I'm sure local water authorities are fully aware of....

Of course its just my opinion and there is likely great variations in interpretations around England and Wales.