Conservatory change

[LeBlur]

Planning permission was deemed necessary, and obtained, when I had a timber framed, stone dwarf walled conservatory built in 1994. This was because there is a private road running round the back of my terraced house and does not relate to the size of the conservatory, which is well within any permitted development parameters.

The frame was changed, by a very well known window-conservatory company, to uPVC in 2007. At this time, the design was also changed from gable-fronted to an Edwardian style conservatory. The conservatory retained the original stone dwarf walls. The company stated that they would handle any permissions required i.e. planning applications. I have recently found out that no planning applications were submitted for this work.

My question is: Where planning permission is required for a conservatory is further planning permissions required for a later change of design and material?

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. The company in question seem a little evasive in answering this.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

My question is: Where planning permission is required for a conservatory is further planning permissions required for a later change of design and material?

Maybe but you will have to provide a whole lot more information if you want any useful answers. Why is it now a problem some 4 years afterwards? Frankly if you thought it needed Planning Permission in 2007 why did you not ask for them for this at the time? In anycase as it has been in place for 4 years you are immune from any prosecution from the local authority. Sounds like someone needs to just move on?

 

[joe-90]

You should have left it timber. Plastic is awful.

 

[LeBlur]

Hi Joe90,

"You should have left it timber. Plastic is awful."

Once it was completed to the company's advertised standards (a long two year battle!!), the uPVC conservatory did look a great deal better that the timber one that was full of rot.

I can see your point of view though. Many thanks.

 

[LeBlur]

Hi FreddyMercurysTwin,

Thanks for your response.

Maybe but you will have to provide a whole lot more information if you want any useful answers.

What sort of "a whole lot more information" do you have in mind?

Why is it now a problem some 4 years afterwards? Frankly if you thought it needed Planning Permission in 2007 why did you not ask for them for this at the time?

The company salesman and designer were both advised that I needed Planning Permission for the original conservatory and why (there is a dirt track, which the planning dept. classed as a private road, running round the back of my terraced house so it was not classed as permitted development). They both stated, and so did their sales documentation, that I didn't need to worry about a thing as they would handle all this for me. The designer even borrowed the original Planning Approval documentation for reference. As I had decided to "Fit The Best" I naively thought they could be trusted (biggest mistake!). I agree that I should have made sure this had been covered off but other issues with this company had far overshadowed this point.

Having just received some FENSA certification for a couple of new windows made me question what I should have received for the conservatory, albeit 4 years down the line. It could only be 2.5 years as it was a long battle to get the conservatory finished to their advertised standards. Is it the commencement date or completion date that determines this?

In anycase as it has been in place for 4 years you are immune from any prosecution from the local authority.

I'm not actually looking for immunity from prosecution. I would much rather have the proper permissions in place, if they are actually required.

Sounds like someone needs to just move on.

Ha ha! I liked this statement, not because it was slightly snotty but because it highlights the real reason why I raised the question.

If I do decide to "move on", i.e. sell the house, this is when I get hit by this issue. It is then that I would probably get hit with the hassle and cost of indemnity insurance, that's if the planning permission was required for this change. Moving house is stressful enough. So, if I tackle this issue now it is one less thing to worry about when I do decide to "move on".

I was advised, via another forum, to just contact the Planning Department and raise the issue with them. I'm not sure how much detail they would require. If this entails giving my name and address then I'm sure that I would then lose any option to take out any indemnity insurance. This is why I have used this forum to ask for your experienced opinions.

Many thanks for your help on this.

 

[^woody^]

A change in the style of a conservatory roof would not be a planning issue

And FENSA does not apply to conservatories, so you wont get anything in that respect

 

[LeBlur]

Hi Woody,

Many thanks for your comments.

I had learnt that FENSA doesn't cover conservatories. It was getting the FENSA certificates for the windows that triggered my thought process.

A change in the style of a conservatory roof would not be a planning issue

This is a hopeful sign. The conservatory footprint is identical to the previous one as it's using the same base and dwarf wall. The change in roof style has certainly reduced the actual overall volume of the conservatory as the Edwardian style is more of a lean-to. Although, the roof is now glass as opposed to the previous polycarbonate. Would this affect things?

So the key question may just be whether the change from wood to uPVC is a planning issue?

Thanks for your guidance

 

[^woody^]

So the key question may just be whether the change from wood to uPVC is a planning issue?

No, not unless the original permission had a condition requiring the frame to be kept as timber. Or if it is a conservation or other "special" area in planning terms

 

[LeBlur]

Hi Woody,

No, there are no stipulations that the frame should be kept as timber on the original planning approvals.

I believe the street is actually a conservation area but I think this is more to maintain the tree lined avenue frontage. I know the planners have recently refused dormers to be installed on roofs but there have been no restrictions on uPVC windows being fitted.

I had my roof replaced a few years ago. I checked with planning to see if there were any restriction, due to the conservation area, and I was told, "It's your roof you can do what you want with it".

I'm waiting to hear back from the conservatory company to see if they are able to give difinitive confirmation as to whether Planning Approvals were required or not. If they give a definite 'no' then I might have enough confidence to cover this off further by confirming this myself with the Planning Department.

You have been a great help in this.

 

[LeBlur]

Here's the response from the conservatory company:

"With regards to the planning permission our Surveyor would have contacted the planning department verbally to see if planning was required. If we had to apply for planning this would have been attached to all the paperwork supplied by us.

I have also been in touch with our conservatory department and they also confirm that no planning was required.

I can assure you that we did not require planning permission on the conservatory you have had installed."

Should this suffice or should I make absolutely certain with a call to the Planning Office myself?

If the company has made a mistake I could put pressure on them to carry out any retrospective planning.

 

[^woody^]

The conservatory firm has made a statement to the effect of not only that the work did not require permission (professional advice), but to admit/imply their negligence if it turns out that PP was required.

Ultimately, you as the land owner are responsible for any planning contraventions, so if you choose to enquire at the council, and it turns out that the firm made a mistake, then you would have a successful claim against them.

The problem you have is that the council will not normally tell you if the work conforms unless you make a formal application

IMO, I would just forget about it as it's either a non-issue or time barred for any action by the council in any case. In practical terms it would take some super-sleuthing for anyone to even bother going into that depth of investigation - the original PP would just be taken as read

 

[LeBlur]

Wise Words Woody. I think that is indeed the best course of action in the circumstances.

Many thanks for your help. It has been greatly appreciated.

I'm glad I could get you through the 500 thanks barrier.