fire regs, partition through my house arrrggghhhh, pls help

[kbsonline]

Hello everybody, i am new to this forum, thank you for reading my post,

i am a council tenant from hemel hempstead, i moved into my house a few years ago as an exchange it has a loft conversion which is fifteen years old, not built to regs they condemned it about a year ago, after much fighting with the local mp behind me i have managed to get them to bring the loft up to regs, i have spent so much time and money making my house a home, now they want to put a partition wall right through the middle of my already tiny victorian cottage, i have read into it and understand why they need to do this but i would really love to hear some alternative suggestions, i am willing to pay if there are extra costs involved, i was thinking fire rated partition/door to top of grnd floor staircase, permanent escape ladder to exterior, sprinkler system?

thanks in advance,

Carla

please see the floorplan, sorry its so basic


img upload

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Who is they and why are they asking for a partition when one didn't exist before? Not belittling its proposed use, your layout as it stands is potentially dangerous.

 

[kbsonline]

hi freddymercurystwin, building control have asked for this, they are asking as the loft is being brought up to current regs, regulations today ask for adequate means escape from all habitable rooms, as per drawings if a fire was to occur in the dining room it would engulf the exit from the loft within minutes, the partition would stop this and provide a safe amount of time to exit the building, i am looking for an alternative as i dont want a wall up as it is cramped already, what are the dangers that you see from the drawings,

carla

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I am well aware of the regulations with regards to protected means of escape. Some inspectors will accept sprinklers (££££s) occasionally they may accept linked alarms in every room. Unfortunately there is not an alternative as far as I'm aware. In retrospect one should have maybe investigated the likely fallout of getting the loft regularised a bit more.

 

[kbsonline]

thanks for your help on this, i was unaware the loft did not conform to regs, it was accepted by the council when the exchange was made, it was only when they came to replace the electrics that it was picked up and condemned, by this time i had already done all the work , there was a structural engineer that visited some time ago that told me there could be some alternatives

 

[^woody^]

Presumably, this is being regularised to the standards of 15 years ago, in which case the wall is probably the only option

There are landlord and tenant issues involved, along with some other onerous common law and safety regulations, and I can't see there being a practical alternative which would satisfy the landlords obligations

 

[kbsonline]

thanks for your help guys, this is being regularised to the standards of today, is this partition to limit the spred of fire to the 3rd floor staircase and provide a means of escape from the 3rd floor, if so would a fixed escape ladder not be suficcient,

regards

 

[^woody^]

You need two escape routes - one down the stairs and out a door, the other via an upstairs window

There also need to be prevention of fire spread up the stairs from the two high-risk rooms downstairs

A sprinkler system has maintenance and operational risks, and an escape ladder has its own risk to occupants, and so both would be less preferable in terms of building regs - ie a last resort

Under L&T, there are maintenance and liability issues for those alternatives, which would be high risk, and potentially irresponsible for the landlord to accept when a more preferable and suitable alternative (ie the wall) is available

 

[kbsonline]

thanks woody that sounds quite plain and simple, i really appreciate it, gotta take a deep breath and watch them wreck our hard work, win some loose some, thanks again

 

[^woody^]

Well, you can always ask about the alternatives, and see what they say.

But bear in mind that while you may be thinking a wall may mess up your dining room, a fire could mess up the whole house or your life

 

[kbsonline]

i would rather die lol, i am struggling to understand the difference between escaping from the 1st floor(before the loft conversion) and the 2nd floor (after), why is a ground floor escape all of a sudden required as the occupants from the first floor wouldnt be able to exit the ground floor previously, At the moment my stair case is open plan in the dining room, so i guess it's ok to burn to death without a loft converstion!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

The risk of serious injury or death is considered much higher when escaping from a room at second floor level rather than first. As previously mentioned, careful what you wish for .........

 

[rjm2k]

Don't know if it would comply with regs, but is there space for a double door instead of a single? At least then if you really wanted you could keep them open to keep the space open?

There are also devices which will allow a door to be kept open but then close automatically in the event of a fire, might be worth researching.

Did you ask your BCO if there were alternatives?

 

[kbsonline]

freddymercurystwin, i understand escaping from the 2nd floor is dangerous, what i was saying was exiting from the first floor is something everybody would have to do at the moment, with a 30m fire door at the top of the stairs it would make chance of escape for all occupants just as safe, i know you cant argue regulations i was just saying i couldnt get my head round it, should they not have enforced a partition already loft or no loft?

hi rjm2k thanks for the advice, there wouldnt be space for two doors at landing level unless one opened right on the top step, again with the automatic closers i dont think the landlord would accept any solutions that would require maintenance, i am looking at maybe changing the floor plans in someway and footing the cost, i have a bco coming round tomorrow but dacorum council dont really seem to know what they are talking about, favourite saying "play it by ear" lol, thats why im here

ta

Carla

 

[rjm2k]

I meant 2 doors where your proposed partition is.

Bear in mind that you can always take your and your familys lives into your own hands and remove anything they put in to bring it upto regs once they have gone, such as taking a door off its hinges. would probably also be breaking your rental agreement