Party Wall Act - what benefits after work done?

[nervous123]

Am I correct that

before the work has started

the benefits to the adjoing neighbour are that they have the right to refuse the work initially being done, and to get a surveyor involved to ensure that any work done does not damage their adjoining property.

What benefit is there after the works have been done - specifically, to the homeowner who carried out the works?

I ask because we were advised by builder not to bother with a formal written PWA before removing chimneys - we got verbal permission though - now i'm concerned this may come back to haunt us

Thanks!

 

[tony1851]

The PWA only determines how work is done. Therfore, if it is now completed, there can be no come-back from your neighbour in this regard.

Did you make a Building Regs application, though? Chimney breast removal is a structural matter and requires notification to the council. Your builder may have pushed you to get on with the work and may not have wanted you to get the council involved.

 

[nervous123]

We removed all breasts and stacks. The LABC clerk - not surveyor - advised that as there would nee nothing left to support, no b regs involvement would be needed. If this is this wrong is it worth getting it regularised now? What exactly would BC be able to inspect - there's nothing left!

Nb. I would bring then in if it meant it would reduce any future liability we would have in this regard

 

[jeds]

There's only one difference. If you invoke the act you gain the protection of the act. That means if your works cause damage your liability is limited to reasonable making good. If you do not invoke the act liability and damages are, in theory, unlimited. But either way; no damage. No liability.

 

[nervous123]

thanks for response.


Any point/benefit in having someone prepare a schedule of condition now?

 

[tony1851]

We removed all breasts and stacks. The LABC clerk - not surveyor - advised that as there would nee nothing left to support, no b regs involvement would be needed.

This may not necessarily be the case, depending on the circumstances.

In some cases, chimney breasts provide stiffness to the party wall, and in this respect their removal can constitute a structural alteration (In some older houses the party wall is only 1/2 brick thick and in those cases the chimney breasts provide the necessary stability).

Also, if the chimney stack above roof level was a joint stack with next doors, them presumably what's left of the stack will be thinner and more liable to wind damage.

This is all a worst-case view and may not apply to your circumstances. Personally, I'd stop worrying about the PWA, and as regards building control, just forget it. More often than not, these things seem serious at first but in the end amount to nothing.

 

[paulandfrodo]

I recently removed a chimney breast under PD. The BCO asked that I render up the slight indent for sound proofing. Render was a nightmare, so I used hardwall. He was happy.

 

[jeds]

thanks for response.


Any point/benefit in having someone prepare a schedule of condition now?

The point of a schedule of condition is to record condition before the works so that it can be compared to condition after the works. Not much point doing it after the event.

 

[AlexaCollinsDesign]

Looking at your original question, I’m never sure that there’s much benefit from a full Party Wall Award to the home owner that’s doing the work. It always appears to me to benefit the other party.

The agreement is there to protect the wall, not either party. As part of it, you can agree the schedule of condition (beforehand), methods of construction, even how the site might be managed or what times at which your builder might work… The neighbour, on a whim can insist on their own surveyor (at your cost) to check over or re-do all your structural calcs, so it’s always worth checking with neighbours at the earliest point that they’re happy with what you’re doing and with your structural documentation. It all points towards benefiting the neighbor more than benefiting the home owner.

The people who make sure the work is done correctly is your Local Authority Building Control. There is no body or agency who enforce the Party Wall Act, it's a piece of civil law. As far as I can see, the PWA just gives your neighbours a framework to sue you with, should the need arise.

 

[nervous123]

It does seemly grossly skewed in favour of the adjoining neighbours.

A little more research has revealed all sorts of horror stories online where great huge bills have been racked up by overzealous PW surveyors/solicitors. I'm thankful I didn't end up with anything like that.

As far as b.r. are concerned, I suppose all I'd need to do is ensure the now halved stack is not in danger of falling apart. Although having said that, is it really my responsibility to sort out? What happens when one party does a loft conversion and removes their chimney- do they have to remove/make sage their neighbour's one too?

 

[noseall]

What happens when one party does a loft conversion and removes their chimney- do they have to remove/make sage their neighbour's one too?

Yes.

 

[AlexaCollinsDesign]

I’ve done jobs where nice neighbours just agree a simple Party Wall Notice and others where the whole PWA, second surveyor, dispute, agreed surveyor thing all has come into play… costs a fortune. It always strikes me as daft as the most important thing is to have good structural advice, Building Regs and a good builder.

If you’ve taken down the other half of the stack, then yes, it’s your responsibility to make good (and safe) around what’s left.

Much depends on the actual structure and type of property as to the detail. I’ve had instances where I’ve taken a chimney breast out of a Victorian semi, but the neighbour has retained theirs, and so I had to put in structural steelwork to leave the stack in place. I’ve done others where the neighbour had already removed theirs, so it was down to me to remove the stack and subsequently make the roof good on both sides of the party wall.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

What happens when one party does a loft conversion and removes their chimney- do they have to remove/make safe their neighbour's one too?

Yes.

Although you don't have to remove the protruding section of chimney, even if you do a loft conversion and want to remove the chimney stack in the loft space.
There are ways of supporting the remaining chimney stack at roof level; I've done several jobs where steelwork has been designed to allow for the removal of the stack to just under roof level, while not touching anything above.