Party Wall Notice Required?

[Davey]

We've applied for planning permission for a 3m x 3m extension on the side of the house. The planning drawings were professionally drawn and I've just noticed they say "Client to conform to Party Wall Act if required" with a link to: http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/133214.pdf

We've not yet got the builders drawings but a couple of local builders have said footings of 0.6m x 1m are generally required by the building inspector.

The distance between our properties will be 3.23m when the extension is built. The extension wall will sit in the middle of the 0.6m wide footing so the footing will extend 150mm each side of the new 300mm thick wall.

This will give me 3.08m from the edge of the footing to my neighbours wall.

Very close but I believe that I don't need to serve a Party Wall notice - is this correct?

The relationship with the neighbour is not particularly good so I would like to avoid this if possible.

Between 3m and 6m I understand my footings cannot go deeper than a line 45 degrees from the bottom of my neighbours footings.

Simple question reallly - how do I know how deep his footings are? It's a 1970's detached if that helps?

Thank you

 

[jeds]

If you are more than 3m away the act does not apply. You'd have to go very deep - i.e. piling deep - to bring it within the 6m rule. So just crack on and don't worry about it.

 

[Davey]

Well it may be close but 3.08m is more than 3m

Just what I wanted to hear - thanks for your help.

Regards

Davey

 

[tony1851]

Even if you were within 3m, how would you be expected to know how deep your neighbour's footings are? Would your neighbour himself know? I may be wrong but it seems to me that the Act can't really be applied if you don't know the adjoining footing-depth to start with.

 

[jeds]

Under the act it is your responsibility to determine the depth of the adjoining owners building. And the act gives you the right to enter and find out - i.e. dig a trial hole.

That's all ok for commercial situations where trial holes are dug more often than not but in the majority (pretty much all) domestic situations it is obviously over the top. Sometimes the adjoining depth is assumed to be less and the act is applied. More often it is assumed to be the same and the act is ignored and people just get on with it. Unless you foundation goes very deep it is highly unlikely to cause any problem.

 

[^woody^]

Under the act it is your responsibility to determine the depth of the adjoining owners building. And the act gives you the right to enter and find out - i.e. dig a trial hole.

.

Have to got a reference for that?

AFAIK, the Act does not give any rights to do this - in fact foundation depths would need to be ascertained before serving Notice (otherwise how would one know whether a notice is required?) ..... and therefore the Act is not even instigated at this stage - so no rights are conferred

I can't imagine that anyone could simply enter someone else's land and start digging trial holes on a whim

It would be a case of using professional opinion as to the likely foundation depth, and deciding if the PWA applies or not on that basis

 

[^woody^]

This will give me 3.08m from the edge of the footing to my neighbours wall.

Very close but I believe that I don't need to serve a Party Wall notice - is this correct?

Distances are measured horizontally from the edges of the foundations, not the wall

 

[jeds]

Under the act it is your responsibility to determine the depth of the adjoining owners building. And the act gives you the right to enter and find out - i.e. dig a trial hole.
.

Have to got a reference for that?

AFAIK, the Act does not give any rights to do this - in fact foundation depths would need to be ascertained before serving Notice (otherwise how would one know whether a notice is required?) ..... and therefore the Act is not even instigated at this stage - so no rights are conferred

Access is given under s.8.(1) 'Under the act' implies that notices are served and the act is invoked. As I said this is not normally practiced in domestic works but it happens routinely in commercial works.

I can't imagine that anyone could simply enter someone else's land and start digging trial holes on a whim

Who said anything about a whim? I specifically said 'under the act' and went to some length to say that it is over the top and usually completely unnecessary for most domestic situations.

It would be a case of using professional opinion as to the likely foundation depth, and deciding if the PWA applies or not on that basis

It's for the building owners surveyor to decide the depth of the adjoining foundation. It couldn't be anybody else. How he/she does that is a matter of professional judgement. If you ignore depth and as a result a problem occurs or the building owner suffers delay you may be held professionally negligent. That might be nothing in domestic cases but could run into a substantial claim in commercial projects.

 

[jeds]

This will give me 3.08m from the edge of the footing to my neighbours wall.

Very close but I believe that I don't need to serve a Party Wall notice - is this correct?

Distances are measured horizontally from the edges of the foundations, not the wall

Distances are measured from the edge of the excavation - not the foundation. The excavation may well batter outwards so will not always be the same as the foundation.

 

[^woody^]

8.1 is for "any work in pursuance of this Act" ie the work detailed in the Award.

It does not give rights to enter to check foundation depths and dig trial holes before even serving notice - so can not apply to the OP's original question of "how do I know how deep his footings are?"

 

[jeds]

It's academic because we both know that these simple situations rarely, if ever, cause an actual problem. But if the rare occasion should happen and the adjoining building moved and cracked then it would be no defense to say we thought the foundation was x deep but it turned out to be y deep. The proper procedure is to serve notice and, if necessary, physically establish the actual depth of the foundation.