What is the World coming to?

[freddiemercurystwin]

When did the OP say he was quoting 50% more? He said a bit more. There's nowt wrong with adding a bit on when you think the client will be a PITA either. You sound like one yourself!

You know if you went to a full blown firm of architects you'd pay about £4K.

 

[WabbitPoo]

There's nowt wrong with adding a bit on when you think the client will be a PITA either. You sound like one yourself!

That's about covering the time you'd have to spend dealing with them, not about how busy you are, and I agree with that principle wholeheartedly.

 

[peca27]

That's my point here, the guy was hard work + I'm busy at present.

Hence I increase my fee (not by 50%........more like 25% tbh). If he's willing to pay the fee, I'm then willing to deal with somebody who is gonna be a pain in the a** and also make time for him.

Otherwise it's not worth my time, at the end of the day that's the primary factor on how the fee is calculated......the time it'll take for me to do the job.

If he's willing to go with an architect who is only charging £300 + this guy has an Engineer who only wants £60. What does that tell u about the client here? Whilst he was waiving the £300 quotation in my face, he told me 'I don't want a gold plated extension' (referring to my fee).

Cheeky tw*t. Does he sound like he's on the ball, and that it'll be a smooth process.

No thankyou

 

[indus]

Your client sounds like a wally and I'm sure he will live to regret his decision. He can't be particularly well educated/informed if he thinks this level of work can be done for £300. Actually he lacks even common sense if he can't see what's coming.

On the other hand like others I have an issue with you increasing the fee because of the value of the house and that you are busy. You are not the only person who does this and I find it a little unethical.

How would you like it if you saw a doctor privately and because you asked a lot of questions and your address was in the nicer part of town he decided to up his fees by 25%?

 

[peca27]

indus let's just agree to disagree on this one. Let me give you an everyday example.....

If I go into the 'rough' part of town I can get clothing, groceries and household items at approx 60% to 75% of the price I can get them at the normal high street stores. Not everybody goes to those areas of the city, some of the locals are looking for trouble, the area is run down & can be unsafe on an evening especially.

Now if I go to a 'good' area of the city, the prices increase accordingly. Why? I have to pay for parking, safety isn't an issue, the stores are clean, I have recourse if an item I buy isn't satisfactory etc.

I know that going into the 'good' area of town, everything is priced accordingly. Last time I checked housing costs more in a better area and I think you are being incredibly naive if you think the same doesn't apply to services also.

If I was to get a job in central Leeds or Manchester, I will be paid more than if I got the same job in a small local town. Is that unethical also?

My time is my time, nobody else can know what someone has to go through for any given task......there is always an unexplained context. Think of the principle of working overtime. If you are busy and already have the working week filled, anything additional is considered an 'extra' is it not?

Hence I think you're being very naive again if you were to agree to work overtime at the same hourly rate you get during the week.

You may see me as unethical, on the flip side I see you as a 'bit wet behind the ears' mate.

Each to there own.

 

[clifford1]

No thanks, I think I'll get another quote from someone less self-righteous.

 

[peca27]

Never put a gun to your head + told you to use me did I clifford1?

Ignorance is bliss for people like you

 

[^woody^]

If I go into the 'rough' part of town .... [etc]

Your analogy makes no sense

The work you have to do for designing an extension for a given property is the same whether the client is a millionaire or a bankrupt, or whether the property is in a nice or not-so-nice area.

You are choosing to charge more just because you think the client has more money and so will pay more. That is not the same of higher or lower charges relative to the area a business is located in. It smacks of greed and profiteering, and the root of the economic problems we are in

Your comments about overtime or whatever are also not relevant. Your costs and time are still the same for the same drawing, and if the client wants you do do his drawings quicker, or jump the queue, then you may charge a premium to refelect your overtime, and notify him accordingly - lets say akin to courier delivery ... £5 for 3 day delivery, £10 for next-day, £20 for before 12 or Saturday. Not £20 all the time because you have lots of other parcels and will only deliver in 3 days anyway

 

[peca27]

Woody - It's how I calculate my fees, I'm not going to apologise for it. I've never had a client complain about the service they receive, I don't advertise, and only pick up work from referrals tbh. I've done many a job for those living in less well off areas and have dropped my fee accordingly.

In my exp + on the whole, those less well off look at the bottom line figure........whereas those with more resources want alot more.

If an architectural firm charges £4k for the job (as originally posted), is that greed + profiteering? If an independant designer charges £300, is that then better value? Most similar age / exp. local designers I know charge approx 20-30% more than I typically do. Most of them apply similar criteria to me when pricing a job.

It's obv a subjective calculation, some would place more importance on one factor or the other (be it a pain in the a** client or distance etc). Pricing strategy varies from business to business, that's all this is.......my way of doing things. Don't recall asking if anyone approves of it, have just responded to the barbs about how I work my fees out.

But don't be so naive to make out it's people like me who are the 'root of the economic problems we are in'. I'm now being associated with the Banking fraternity ........what a joke this thread is becoming.

 

[^woody^]

If an architectural firm charges £4k for the job (as originally posted), is that greed + profiteering?.

A firm, of several people will have significantly more costs, and resources and these will be reflected in the fees they must charge and the client must pay to access those services.

So its not profiteering it is normal, and you can't compare the costs and charges of a firm with those of a one-man band. What would be profiteering is if the one man band charges the large fees of firms when the business costs are not the same

As for these other local designers charging more, do you know their business costs? Are they using a proper AutoCAD licence at £4k, have PI at £2k, technical indices access at £1k, and PC and plotter leases? If so the costs need recouping

 

[RonnyRaygun]

If an architectural firm charges £4k for the job (as originally posted), is that greed + profiteering?.

A firm, of several people will have significantly more costs, and resources and these will be reflected in the fees they must charge and the client must pay to access those services.

So its not profiteering it is normal, and you can't compare the costs and charges of a firm with those of a one-man band. What would be profiteering is if the one man band charges the large fees of firms when the business costs are not the same

As for these other local designers charging more, do you know their business costs? Are they using a proper AutoCAD licence at £4k, have PI at £2k, technical indices access at £1k, and PC and plotter leases? If so the costs need recouping

Not only this, but a larger firm will generally have a more experienced team, and a greater ability to deliver a project on time and to spec.

However, I don't see a problem with Peca charging more if he thinks the customer will take up more of his time. If he thinks the drawings will take 20 hours of his time, charge accordingly.
However, if he thinks the customer is going to be on the phone with questions, queries, and demands, taking up another 5 hours, then add it to the price. He may be right, he may be wrong, but you can't conjure up time out of thin air.
As it happened, the prospective customer decided the quote was too high and went elsewhere. On the flip side, the customer may have acceptted the price and not asked a single question, and more profit is made. It's a balancing act.
A builder would price a job based on the brief, but will charge for extras if they can justify them.
A solicitor would simply charge their client each time they write a letter or take a phone call.
At the end of the day you have to make money or you get hungry.

 

[joe-90]

There's no reason for a SE to be based in the UK. He could be in based in Mumbai or anywhere else where £60 is very good money. Same for the architect.

 

[^woody^]

However, I don't see a problem with Peca charging more if he thinks the customer will take up more of his time.

That's right, no-one should work for nothing

But charging more just because there is a merc on the drive rather than a mondeo is questionable

 

[mointainwalker]

But charging more just because there is a merc on the drive rather than a mondeo is questionable

I really can't see that at all. Unless there is some legal mechanism in play, then you set your price at the level you feel will give you the result you want. These forums are full of posts from tradesmen who talk of quoting high "because they don't like/trust the bloke".

My own working life was spent selling to industry - mainly car-manufacturers - and your pricing depended if you wanted more work or retain your current share.Generally low profits/high volume.

Another employer made high-value electronics gear up to 120K per piece , selling to banks, currency-dealers etc. There , for the right deal the price could be discounted by up to 50%.

Comments just to show that the issues being discussed are not exclusive to individuals/small businesses.

To me charging what you want, for whatever reason you want, is the essence of free-enterprise.

Having said that - and to pre-empt comments - I detest the idea of predatory pricing where one entity tries to put another out of business to be able to jack up prices afterwards.

 

[noseall]

I don't see a problem with Peca charging more if he thinks the customer will take up more of his time.

Me neither.

I was invited to quote for a job fairly local, i.e. next town.

Even from the tone of the conversation on the phone, i got a 'feeling' about the customer.

I knew the architect who supplied the drawing and phoned him prior to my appointment with the customer. He said be careful as the client is "very fussy".

I don't mind fussy but obsessive is something entirely different and this guy was obsessive!

I did not quote for the job as his initial demands did not fit with my time-frame.

The builder that did get the job ended up scarpering before it was finished. I drove past there in October of this year (16 months later) and it is still not finished.

The architect advised adding a percentage to the quote in order to deal with what he described as "a potential troublesome client".

The job is in Stafford and involved a balcony with iron railings which the customer wanted a hand in designing. This is the part that is still not finished along with the terrace and all that goes with it i.e. gutter, fascia, etc.

However, an open display of wealth is definitely not a precursor for a price hike.