Why would I need a Certificate of Lawfulness

[colin68]

We bought our house 16 years ago and it had a cottage in the garden.
The house and cottage are both about 175-200 years old.

We applied for a building warrant to renovate the interior of the cottage. we also contacted planning and were told that if it is a house and we are not changing it from a house then we didn't need planning permission. There were no exterior changes.

We started renting the cottage out about 8 years ago once we realised none of our parents were going to occupy it. We have all the land lords certifacates, council tax stuff etc.

The council have contacted us and told us the cottage is illegal. They wont tell us why and only after pestering a clerk did he suggest getting a certificate of lawfulness. Why would we need it after nearly 200 years??

 

[tony1851]

The council is just after more money to give you a useless piece of paper.
If its been there for 200 years and used as a dwelling, I have a sneaking feeling it might just possibly be a little out of time.
If they won't advise in writing why it's "illegal", then I would be inclined to smell the proverbial rodent. Just ignore it.

 

[^woody^]

From a planning perspective, everything that existed before 1948 is deemed to have permission

 

[chapeau]

My money is on it having nothing to do with how old the house is.

 

[tony1851]

My money is on it having nothing to do with how old the house is.

What could it be then?

 

[chapeau]

Council think it's a recent change of use.

 

[jeds]

Is it actually a house or an annexe? Local authority probably think you are planning to try and sell it independantly.

 

[colin68]

Hi, all thanks for your replies. I have been laid up for the last few days, but I am getting better now hence me not replying.

I have been to the local library and searched the valuation rolls from 1917 up to 1989 (when it would appear that they stopped listing houses, just businesses) and my house has 2 listings between these dates (both at the same address), both with a description of a house. Each with a separate rateable value and occupied.

I spoke to the local planning who dismissed this as evidence and said that for a certificate of lawfulness we need to prove the last 4 years as being occupied. When questioned why we need it when we can prove it was a house prior to 1948, he said it had no bearing on the matter.

We have been to our solicitor who is now drawing up an affidavit for our previous tenants to sign, as well as this they will supply copies of all of the leases etc.

What more can I do? What is going on??

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

P.S. The guy from the council just keeps saying he is not there to advise us on what to do. As helpful as an ash tray on a motor bike.

 

[^woody^]

I don't know where you get this need for a certificate of lawfulness from?

If the planners are alleging a contravention, then they have to tell you what the contravention is, and then you deal with that.

I can't see that a planner can just say "its illegal". They need to specify what is wrong, and what section of planning law is contravenened

 

[colin68]

Woody, that is my point exactly, but cannot get any sense out of the council.

We are scared that something is not right and we end up needing to kick tenants out. We just don't know whats going on, or why.

 

[xdave]

I suspect the officer you spoke to had no idea what you were talking about and treated it as a general enquiry.

You need to write to the head of the council (find out who the head of paid service is and address it to them), and also Cc your local councillor. Include a copy of the original letter from the council and explain that you have tried to discover what the letter is in relation to but that the council officers have been obstructive and have refused to tell you. Tell them that unless you hear back from them with details of any planning contravention then you will consider the matter closed. Then do nothing until you get a response from them. You cannot be accused of not acting correctly, and neither can you be expected to read minds.

 

[^woody^]

They must have sent you a letter or something telling you what is wrong and what you need to do?

 

[colin68]

I found the original letter (was filed away in a cupboard, in an envelope, in another envelope).

I quote 'I would advise that the change of use of the outbuilding to form a single dwellinghouse constitutes development for which planning permission is required under the above act and as no such consent exists or has been forthcoming, the development is unauthorised and in breach of the said act'

It then lists 3 options 1)cease use 2) submit for planning 3)submit for a certificate of lawfulness.

When my wife phoned she was advised to go down the certificate of lawfulness route.

Do we really need it?? As I said earlier I can show it was a house as far back as 1917.

 

[chapeau]

Hard to believe they can be that stupid but it happens time and again.

Write to the council tax department and tell them you made a terrible mistake and you've been paying council tax for a shed and want 6 years money back. Their own planning department will verify this.

 

[tony1851]

Do we really need it?? As I said earlier I can show it was a house as far back as 1917.

Instead of worrying about finding evidence to prove this, that and the other, why not just ignore the Council?
Look at the issue the other way round; what are they going to do if you do nothing?
I still believe its a hollow threat and that they're just after some money from you for an application. If its been a separate dwelling for 4 years, then end of story.