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rain coming in over lintels

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Robbox

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 117
Location: Somerset,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:05 am Reply with quote

My house has several windows and door cut into the old rubble stone walls. They have a sort of fake Bath stone lintel above them.

On very wet and windy days, a lot of water seems to come in above the lintels and I wonder if there is a solution.

The mortar seems fairly good.

Is there a way to insert something impermeable above the lintel to deflect the trickle of water?
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catlad

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:06 pm Reply with quote

Try posting some pictures that may help with replies.
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urbanite

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:43 pm Reply with quote

With or without cavity?

What should be there is a cavity and within that a length of cavity tray which should direct the water out through weep holes at both ends of the lintel. This is placed directly behind and under the lintel. Could be a tricky retro fit but worth it.

If it's a solid rubble stone wall then you may need to chemically treat the walls to avoid water penetration, very difficult to achieve successfully. This is why a lot of stone walls get rendered.
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Robbox

from United Kingdom

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Location: Somerset,
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:54 pm Reply with quote

No cavity in the old part of the house, the rear extension has cavity and that doesn't leak rainwater over the top of the lintel.

Here are a couple of pics.

One is of the most offending lintels, the water ingress above the door/sidewindow and the small upper window is quite a lot when it rains and blows. I did wonder if the pipes had an effect on the amount coming through.

The second picture is another issue with a window in the 2001 extension, seems that moisture is being forced past the frame into the plaster.
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stuart45

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:17 pm Reply with quote

It could be that there is a small gap between the top of the window and the bottom of the lintels where the water can run in. Is there a drip edge visible on the lintels?
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Robbox

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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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Location: Somerset,
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:30 pm Reply with quote

there is a drip edge and I have squirted sealant in the gaps.

A builder has suggested waterproofing the stone work.

Over the door, I have thought to put a porch...which may help to protect the door and stop the ingress above the lintel.

I wondered if there is a way to cut out the mortar above the lintel and fit a sheet of lead.
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catlad

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:13 pm Reply with quote

When chasing lead into walls, cut a channel 25mm deep with grinder.
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urbanite

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:22 pm Reply with quote

If i'm understanding you right i believe you are considering taking out the mortar above the door, possibly at the sill level of the stair window and sliding in a dpc or lead flashing in. I don't think it's going to help your problem as you may just chase the problem further up or along the wall. you need to find the cause

The stair window looks like it could be one of the culprits to the water ingress, investigate the edge reveal to the side closest the door if you can shelter the side reveal for a while and see if that helps. Look for splits in the stone.


your second picture of the new extension could possibly be condensation problems. This could occur on the inside face of your cavity and track down where the cavity has been closed at the reveal.

It's very difficult to trace problems such as these without have a good look around and moisture meter equipment. You may benefit from getting an expert in.
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Robbox (7 Mar 2012)
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urbanite

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:28 pm Reply with quote

catlad wrote:
When chasing lead into walls, cut a channel 25mm deep with grinder.


This seems a bit shallow, is this depth from experience?
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merlin50

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:14 pm Reply with quote

i had this problem and treated the stone above the window and it fixed it
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tim00

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:06 pm Reply with quote

1. What kind of stone is in-situ? A soft stone can be easily cut as catlad says.
But i dont think flashings as such are the answer. Perhaps "Hood-Mouldings" in a sympathetic stone would help? google "hood-mouldings" and consider your options.

2. merlin claims success with "treating" similar stone - i'd like to hear more about what he/she did? Typically, i would shy away from "waterproofing" treatments, but i live and learn.

3. Your window frames are set too far forward - they should be set well back.(And stone sills would have been more appropriate and practical. In fact, stone surrounds would have been the way to go, even in a cottage. google "stone window surrounds")

4. I notice that the stonework and pointing alters above the S&VP. The lower pointing seems fresher and wider than above - such exposed pointing will always be a weak area.

5. Could you post a pic of the front elevation?

6. Rough stonework ( especially at the openings) is notoriously prone to moisture penetration.
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Robbox

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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Location: Somerset,
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:14 pm Reply with quote

"What kind of stone is in-situ?"

Bath stone of variable softness, ie some stones have flaked badly others totally untouched. It's seems generally a medium/hard stone.

"Your window frames are set too far forward"

This I totally agree with, but it would mean replacing all the offending windows and that's another whole job! If it were me I'd replace the windows with cill-less windows and use a roof-tiles set in a double layer as the cill. I figured that would look more sympathetic and be fairly easy/inexpensive to achieve. Plus then the windows can all be set further back.

"I notice that the stonework and pointing alters above the S&VP"

It's true there is some variation and I think previous owners have probably tried to overcome the same problem....

Front Elevation and Full Side Elevation...

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tim00

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:01 pm Reply with quote

You do have stone surrounds to some openings and the frames are set back. Do you have moisture penetrations at the stone surround frames?

You can remove and re-use the same frames and set them back, but it will be a bit of work and no guarantee that the moisture will stop. Perhaps do one accessible frame as a trial? But frames set that far forward in stone will continue to be a problem.

The landing light coming just above/touching the door lintel is a tricky business. I have no suggestions to offer.

A heroic effort would be to rake out all suspect pointing and carefully repoint with a remedial mix - the Ancient buildings/Renovation people have been doing studies on remedial pointing, perhaps contact one of them?

Your stone, if required, can be cut, per catlad, in a level, or plumb line, to a 25mm depth. A grinder and a good blade will make short work of it.

I suspect that your property was re-configured at some time and the openings that we see at the "front" elev are recent. I'm sorry that i cant help you more but my experience with stone is limited.

As a matter of interest, couldn't you drop your RWP's plumb from their outlets, and eliminate that running RWP? In fact, when you have time , perhaps re-examine the whole gutter/RWP design.
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peterperfection

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 pm Reply with quote

Chasing lead into the wall will make your house look tacky !! and it will not help in the slightest to cure your problem .
My suggestion is that you spray/paint , the stonework with ALUMINIUM STEARATE.
I have used it many years ago to deal with the problems that you have now- and it works .
Do not confuse it with thomsons water seal- it is much better than that .
It is pretty much the same stuff that used to be injected into walls as a DPC cure .
Google it --there are quite a few suppliers who will be more than willing to give you more info.
Price of the stuff is around 100 per 25 Litres.
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gasmanjim

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Yorkshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:54 pm Reply with quote

Hi, I think I may be having a similar problem, My house has UPVC sash windows and is solid walled (9 inch clamp bricks) and concrete rendered, it has stone lintels above the windows.

We have an ongoing problem with damp patches at the right hand side bottom of 2 of the upstairs windows, I have exposed the bottom left of one of the windows and found that water is running down the side of the UPVC frame from above, I have replaced the roofing felt which had been damaged by birds under the front row of tiles thinking this was the problem but no change icon_sad.gif

I have also re-siliconed the windows with no effect

When we bought the house it had been abandoned for 8 years and there were cracks (one big enough to see daylight through) at either side of the bottom of most of the windows, the walls were repaired and concrete lintels added with the UPVC windows.

I will post some pictures shortly, do you think this may be the same problem? havnt heared of ALUMINIUM STEARATE, maybe something to consider?

Many Thanks
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