Steel pillars instead of engineering brick pier

[Milleniumaire]

We have just received some plans from our architect for a single story extension onto the side of our kitchen.

This requires a wall to be moved out and a supporting steel beam to be used to support the house where this wall currently exists. The plans show a requirement for a 325mm x 440mm pier on either side of the span to support the beam, with the piers made of engineering brick. So far, I suspect this is all very familiar.

The problem we have is that this will result in a column on either side of the room, where the pier juts out into the kitchen and, if possible I would like to minimise/remove this.

I've discussed the use of steel pillars instead of using engineering brick piers and this will help as the steel pillars will only need to be 203mm square.

While, this would probably be the best solution for us, I'm concerned that using steel pillars will increase the building costs significantly.

I would appreciate any feedback from experienced builders on whether this is likely to be the case. Does using steel pillars make the job more difficult/complicated? Is any extra cost purely down to purchasing the extra steelwork or is more labour required to install them?

Thanks.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Design practicalities aside steel columns need to be purchased, designs & calculations paid for, clad in something and require pad foundations. So costs will inevitably be more.

 

[Milleniumaire]

Thanks for your answer, but I'm not convinced by it.

Engineering bricks also need to be purchased, the pier manually built and this also requires designs & calculations to be paid for. A pier also requires a pad foundation.

So based on your answer I appreciate that a steel pillar will require clading and the cost of the steel may be more than the cost of engineering bricks, but would this be offset by the speed at which the pillar could be installed?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You've convinced me a brick pier will cost the same if not more.

 

[tony1851]

Why on earth have they suggested engineering brick for the piers?
As usual, its probably a case of the SE putting in something simple (but expensive to you) instead of something which would need just a tiny bit of work on his part to check. Could be done in concrete block.
Do you actually need piers/ - they mess the kitchen up. How wide is the opening?

Regardless, as FMT states, the steel will be more expensive - you forgot to mention the fabrication costs (welding and drilling) which are not cheap.

 

[limerockconstruction]

My thoughts would be that on a standard sized extension the costs of either of your methods would be fairly similar. So unless its a monster sized job, I would imagine the costs of doing the steel work should remain well within your budget.

 

[Milleniumaire]

The steel beam will be 10m long, which I believe is quite a large span. The specification for the size of the beam by the structural engineer is 305x305x118 UC.

A pier is required at one end of the beam and another at a position 8m along the beam. This is where an existing partition wall exists. A padstone only (no pier) will be used at the other end of the beam. I assume this is because this end is only 2m from the supporting pillar that will be "part" of the utility wall.

Given the length of the steel beam I'm sure you will agree that piers are required. Unfortunately, the one on the utility wall is the one causing us most problems as it will end up being twice the thickness of the wall, hence the requirement to use a steel pillar to reduce the thickness. Plus, if we can use a steel pillar at one end, why not the other!

 

[limerockconstruction]

All I would say is that if you speak with your engineer about your concerns he will be able to design something appropriate - so long as he is a pragmatic engineer, they should be able to come up with something suitable, but it will cost, both in design and installation. So it will come back to your budget.

However a beam in at that length is going to weigh 1.2 tonnes so my guess is there will already be a lot of splicing and fabrication detail to do, so you won't be paying much more to get it how you want.

Giove him a call tomorrow and chat him up!

 

[Milleniumaire]

My architect has already spoken to the engineer and they have both agreed that using a steel pillar (or two) isn't a problem and he will be happy to modify the calculations/drawings for a small additional fee.

The unknown for me at the moment is what affect this will have on the building costs. For example, if it's likely to add an extra 10% to the cost of the extension then I won't waste my money getting the drawings to show steel pillars. If it's an extra 5% maybe I will.

I guess I will have two sets of drawings/calculations; one showing engineering bricks and the other for steel pillars, so I could get builders to quote on both methods.

 

[limerockconstruction]

Are you talking 5% 0r 10% on overall build cost? Then no, I imagine much less.....has your Architect given you a ball park estimate for the job as a whole?

 

[tony1851]

The steel beam will be 10m long, which I believe is quite a large span. The specification for the size of the beam by the structural engineer is 305x305x118 UC.

Gulp!!
I take back what I said about a concrete block pier. That is a large span for domestic work and if using masonry, engineering brick would seem sensible.
As for steel, I see your point!

 

[noseall]

The unknown for me at the moment is what affect this will have on the building costs. For example, if it's likely to add an extra 10% to the cost of the extension then I won't waste my money getting the drawings to show steel pillars. If it's an extra 5% maybe I will.

Dealing with a 10m opening is going to be costly no matter what you do, irrespective of steel column or masonry pillar. This part of the construction will be only a small part of the overall costs.

The construction of brick pillars will be more versatile. The steel column will be a fixed dimension and will require forethought, accuracy and skill and probably quite a bit of faffing.

 

[Milleniumaire]

I confess I have the utmost respect for builders when they face a challenge like this. I have no idea how you would install a 10m steel beam of significant weight onto either steel or block piers, making sure the beam is at exactly the right height to ensure there is NO movement of the stonework it is supporting.

I guess if all steel is to be used, the measurements of the length of the piers has to be spot on! I assume measurements would be taken after the concrete pad was built so the distance between floor and the position of the steel beam can be calculated as accurately as possible, but even then, as the steel beam isn't in place it seems there is a lot of room for error!

 

[joe-90]

Edit: Didn't notice he said 10 metre beam.