New ceiling Spotlight - too many wires

[estgeorge]

Hi
I live in an old council house, which has the single bulb hanging from a small ceiling fitting. My Brother has bought a new ceiling 3 spot fitting.

I have had a look at fitting it, but when i remove the old one, there are 3 red and 3 black wires coming from the ceiling.

In the old fitting there was a connector strip with one screw part for each wire, in the new fitting there is only on small connector for live and one connector for neutral, so of course, the 3 wires wont fit into the one connector.

Any solution would be much appreciated. Maybe i could isolate 2 live and 2 neutral wires with electrical insulation tape and just use one?

Thank You

George

 

[riveralt]

Did you note down where the original wires went - ie which one of the black ones was a switch live? It might have a red sleeve on it. If you didn't then do you have access to a mulitimeter and do you know how to use it?
Because you will need to establish how to identify this cable before you start.
If you know which one is switch live then if you are replacing a normal ceiling rose with a lamp that has L N and E then follow the instructions outlined below.
//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:rose

 

[estgeorge]

That's excellent, thanks for the quick reply. No, i didn't note it down, foolish i know. I only have one of the voltage testing screwdrivers, but i can go and get a multimeter tomorrow.
Thanks very much for the reply and the link, much appreciated.
Note to self, read up on stuff, before doing, in future! Would have made it a lot easier.
Of course, now im really worried, as a temporary measure, i put the 3 live into a connector block, and what i thought were the 3 black neutral into a seperate connector block, but if one black is live, i assume thats dangerous?

Thank You

George

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Also you have failed to mention the existence of any earth cables, do you have any? Does the new fitting require earth connection?

 

[estgeorge]

There is no earth wire from the ceiling, but the new fitting has an earth wire attached to the metal bracket that screws into the ceiling, looking at the instructions, you attach this to the earth socket in the new light fitting.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I only have one of the voltage testing screwdrivers

don't use them they can not by trusted.

I put the 3 live into a connector block, and what i thought were the 3 black neutral into a seperate connector block, but if one black is live, i assume thats dangerous?

If you separate all the blacks you may find some lights don't work

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

There is no earth wire from the ceiling, but the new fitting has an earth wire attached to the metal bracket that screws into the ceiling, looking at the instructions, you attach this to the earth socket in the new light fitting.

But the fitting must be earthed, this can only be done through your electrical circuit. Check your existing cables for earths within the sheathing.
Or you can't install the metal fitting.

 

[riveralt]

There is no earth wire from the ceiling, but the new fitting has an earth wire attached to the metal bracket that screws into the ceiling, looking at the instructions, you attach this to the earth socket in the new light fitting.

If you have no earth wire from the ceiling you CANNOT use metal light fittings unless the are Class 2.
Check that the earth hasn't just been cut back in the three cables you have. If it is has in all three cables and you have sufficient slack then you should be able to pull it through.
And no - mixing live and neutral together in the same terminal block is not a good combination - though provided you don't turn the light switch on it shouldn't go bang.

 

[estgeorge]

don't use them they can not by trusted.

It's strange you say that, it came with a pack of screwdrivers and as soon as i looked at it, i thought, "i don't think so" so i have only ever used it as a normal small screwdriver.

 

[riveralt]

....so i have only ever used it as a normal small screwdriver.

They're not even good enough for that.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

don't use them they can not by trusted.

It's strange you say that, it came with a pack of screwdrivers and as soon as i looked at it, i thought, "i don't think so" so i have only ever used it as a normal small screwdriver.

It is no good as a means of testing for live/dead conductors, the best and safe method is by using a two probe tester.
Using as a screwdriver or stirring your tea is an expectable use.

 

[estgeorge]

They're not even good enough for that.

That made me laugh, you're right!

This is the light, there is no mention of a class:

http://www.clasohlson.co.uk/Product/Product.aspx?id=165083164

Thanks for all the help!

George

 

[riveralt]

They're not even good enough for that.

That made me laugh, you're right!
This is the light, there is no mention of a class:
http://www.clasohlson.co.uk/Product/Product.aspx?id=165083164
Thanks for all the help!
George

Very very unlikely to be class 2 - so you must have an earth (well three actually) at the ceiling rose before you can proceed. If not you will have put up a plastic ceiling rose and pendant.

 

[estgeorge]

Using as a screwdriver or stirring your tea is an expectable use.

hadn't thought of a stirrer... hehe

This is great gents, thanks very much, i'll return it tomorrow and buy a safe one.

There definitely weren't any Earth Cables.

Had i kept a note of which cable was which, i would have been ok, but as i didn't, I may just play it safe and ask one of my brothers friend's to fit it, as he's an electrician and i seem to be in over my head. I certainly don't want to end up electrocuting myself.

Really is much appreciated both of you, thank you for taking the time to reply.

George

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The fact that the fitting has an earth tail on it, would suggest that it requires to be earthed.