Sequence lights coming on using Timer Delay Relay ...

[OoPhoenixoO]

Hi all,

Before I ask, I don't intend to do this work myself (unless its doesn't involve anything that requires certifying). Just trying to find out if possible and what I will need to purchase.

We have a long hallway in our house. My wife would like downlighters in the ceiling which when switched on, come on in sequence down the hallway one after the other.

At present there is one pendant light and one switch. The lights in the house feed on a live loop from one to the next, then into the MCB in the unit, there are three different MCB's in the unit serving different areas of lighting in the house.

So, I have seen these http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/time-delay-relays/3005812/ (time delay relay's which are DIN rail mounted.).

Could I get say 4 of these and daisy chain them in a new DIN enclosure , feeding a single downlight from each, puting the live feed into the first one. If so, would it be an expensive job messing about with existing unit joining it to the new enclosure, or can you just rack these relays and simply add the existing live feed into the first relay.

Just looking for feasability at the moment, originally I said it cant be done, but she insisted there must a way lol.

Thanks for any info.

Regards

Craig

 

[ericmark]

Your looking for a star/delta motor timer once you know that then you will google far cheaper units.

When you see corridors in schools with that effect it's not a delay unit but passive inferred sensors as one is triggered it in turn switches on the next so it always starts where triggered and works away.

With a simple timer it would work same direction every time so would look rather strange working towards you.

The Ceiling Flush Occupancy Switch will cost around £20 each against around £16 for timer but with a short hall I don't really know if they would switch on in sequence.

It is unlikely the will need registering with LABC but clearly all work must comply with Part P in England and Wales.

 

[OoPhoenixoO]

Fantastic, I will have a look around. She originally wanted them to switch on with PIR, I have used LightWaveRF products and PIR around the kids rooms to acheive this and the landing upstairs, but their stuff is expensive.

So if I want to install 5 of these, would it be as simple as taking the feed from the existing pendant and chain it across all five?, so it the light switch was off, they wouldnt come on at all?

Thanks for the tip I will have a look at the star/delta motor too, but strikes me, that these are very simple way to achieve what I want without messing about with the existsing wiring too much.

Cheers

Craig

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Just trying to find out if possible and what I will need to purchase.

Probably cheaper to have the electrician purchase the parts.

My wife would like downlighters in the ceiling which when switched on, come on in sequence down the hallway one after the other.

In the name of all that is sensible, why?

At present there is one pendant light and one switch.

Wouldn't a switch at each end of the hallway be a good idea?

So, I have seen these http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/time-delay-relays/3005812/ (time delay relay's which are DIN rail mounted.).

Could I get say 4 of these

But I'm sure you can get 230V ones...

If so, would it be an expensive job messing about with existing unit joining it to the new enclosure, or can you just rack these relays and simply add the existing live feed into the first relay.

Whether they are cascaded, with each timer set the same, or all wired to start timing at once and each set differently, the live feed won't come from the CU, will it?

If you are going to have it put in, you want the enclosure with the timers local to the lights, or there will have to be a cable from the switch to the timers and then 4 cables from the timers to the lights. all running through ceilings, up and down walls etc.

Just looking for feasability at the moment, originally I said it cant be done, but she insisted there must a way lol.

It's feasible, it can be done, it'll cost hundreds.

It's a daft idea.

 

[OoPhoenixoO]

Indeed, originally I looked at a DMX solution, but that was way expensive, On the face of it thought I could take the live feed from the pendant into the first relay, loop the live through the relays and have a bit of wire from each relay into the spot.

Is it an old house so im going to pull the whole ceiling (held up by lining paper it seems) down and put a new one up so was just thinking of it could be done at this stage.

The hallway is around 10 meters long and goes from the living roon to the kitchen, their is only a swicth at the living room end, as you would never usually enter the house from the other end, so was just a novelty thing.

And yes, that relay was just to show the kinda thing I was looking at

Cheer

Craig

 

[ericmark]

At work we had a simple rule. If a machine needed 5 or more timers fit a PLC as timers are expensive and you could buy a PLC for less than 5 timers.

For you there would be a programming problem well even I have a problem now as no serial port in my laptop.

My son is looking at home automation like me he does program PLC's but by time you include a SCADA or HMI the price starts to rocket.

There is a whole Range of home automation products when I first looked there was only the Z-Wave but today the sky is the limit.

Major point is how far do you want to go? My son and monitor alarm and change heat settings from his mobile phone. There are wireless TRV so he can even select temperatures of one room from phone. To me it's OTT for such a small house.

The problem is as you point out access and then number of cables which go to the server in the loft is silly. Clearly any timers can't be hidden by plaster board so it means a host of cables to where the control is.

If you read just one system like the X10 you will see how there now seems to be no limit and with £100 for simple timers that would go a long way towards fitting full home automation.

When I was younger I also started to build and fit specials in the home. Then went to work in Algeria and the Falklands which caused problems as if anything went wrong my wife needed to find some one to repair a non standard system. As a result I ripped it all out. She simply wanted lights to work when switched on.

As a result job one is find local home automation installer and use the same products. Even if you then fit them should you not be able for any reason to fix faults as what happened to me working away for 6 months at a time your wife can get some one local to fix it.

 

[OoPhoenixoO]

Yes, that is another problem with home automation things, if they go wrong there are a nightmare to fix it you dont know the setup. I have wall sockets with timer cut offs (to control when the kids watch TV ), PIR to swicth lights on/off, timers on the washing machine all controlled via a LightWaeRF automation system, which as you mention I can control from my phone, event when im in a different city.

Problem is, all this it is expensive, even a dimmable wireless bulb is £25, when a bit if the kit expires, or your control box has a wobble, as it did recently, all hell breaks loose . I just want off the shelve bog standard controls for this, which can be easily swapped out, hence my inital thought of of the relay (now star/delta motor), which I though could be located in the cupboard under the stairs (next to the hallway) so if it died, it didnt mean taking the floor up upstairs etc, dont mind running extra wires as this stage i.e from the live feed in the ceiling rose elsewhere as wall and ceiling are all being replaced anyway.

Thanks for all your input.

 

[ericmark]

It depends how good you are. This Christmas light sequencer could do the job with a slight variation.

But I am now I big believer in KISS.

 

[stillp]

Couldn't you use 4 delay-on timers, with the inputs paralled, then set the delay to a longer period for each successive light?

 

[bernardgreen]

You can also use a motorised cam timer for simplicity Also creates a novel whirring noise as the lamps come on and go off.

http://www.tempatron.co.uk/product.php/1/Electromechanical Cam Timers.html

You will need a 6 cam unit as you will need at least one cam switch with a two way wall switch to control the motor.

Edit Link to Farnell removed as they no longer stock the item

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Couldn't you use 4 delay-on timers, with the inputs paralled, then set the delay to a longer period for each successive light?

Whether they are cascaded, with each timer set the same, or all wired to start timing at once and each set differently....