wiring colours in new extension

[bazmdiy]

Hi all,

Please can someone with wiring experience offer advice about colour regulations?

I am building an extension and intend to do the wiring layout (will be checked by electrician). The house is listed and was rewired about 40yrs ago in red/black wiring. I have unused 100m reels of red/black wiring.

Am I allowed to use red/black or do I have to buy new brown/blue cabling?

If I have to use brown/blue is mixed colour coding allowed at the consumer box?

Would it be acceptable to sleeve the red/black connections with brown/blue?

Please don't suggest I rewire the house!

Many thanks

 

[OwainDIYer]

No, yes.

Yes.

You should sleeve the connections at the point where you change from one colour scheme to the other.

You must add a warning label at the consumer unit to indicate that two colour schemes are in use.

 

[riveralt]

Please don't suggest I rewire the house!

No but I would suggest you speak to your electrician BEFORE you start any work - because you new circuits will need to meet todays standards.
Using the old colour cable does not meet todays standards.
You will require RCD protection on the new circuits.
Your planning application would have included how you intend to test and certify that the new circuits are safe - your electrician will not put his name to any certificate unless he has been involved in the design, installation and testing of the circuits.

 

[GaryMo]

Not that I've done it but I'd love to see anybody argue against the use of left over red/black coloured cable, especially when matching into an existing red/black installation.
As long as it's listed as a departure from BS7671 on the EIC and the installation isn't compromised from a safety point of view then all should be good.

 

[riveralt]

Not that I've done it but I'd love to see anybody argue against the use of left over red/black coloured cable, especially when matching into an existing red/black installation.
As long as it's listed as a departure from BS7671 on the EIC and the installation isn't compromised from a safety point of view then all should be good.

It was pointed out to me as 514.4.1, table 51 and appendix 7 in the Big Green Book.

 

[GaryMo]

It was pointed out to me as 514.4.1, table 51 and appendix 7 in the Big Green Book.

No regs book with me at the minute but I'd be happy to list it as a deviation which doesn't compromise safety of the installation.
BS7671 isn't a book of statutory rules, it's a guide to aid compliance with the Electricity At Work Regulations. I doubt using black and red conductors would bring the end of the world nearer.

 

[riveralt]

BS7671 isn't a book of statutory rules, it's a guide to aid compliance with the Electricity At Work Regulations.

Fully aware of that - though there is a requirement of my scheme membership (codes of practice) that all work undertaken must be completed in accordance with the requirements of the BS 7671.

I doubt using black and red conductors would bring the end of the world nearer.

Probably not - I was preparing the OP for a possible challenge from the electrician he speaks to.
Personally if a customer asked me to fit 'old' cable I would refuse.

 

[GaryMo]

I also would only use harmonised colours but just looking at it from an alternative perspective.

 

[Chri5]

You should sleeve the connections at the point where you change from one colour scheme to the other.

You must add a warning label at the consumer unit to indicate that two colour schemes are in use.

No

Yes




Answer A. Why ?

 

[RF Lighting]

 

[OwainDIYer]

You should sleeve the connections at the point where you change from one colour scheme to the other.

No

Answer A. Why ?

so that it is clear which new colours attach to which old colours, at the point of connection.

It's my preference, not a regulation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not that I've done it but I'd love to see anybody argue against the use of left over red/black coloured cable, especially when matching into an existing red/black installation.

Me to - with the amendment "I'd love to see anybody argue with any credibility against ..."

No, yes.

Yes.

If those are your answers to

Am I allowed to use red/black or do I have to buy new brown/blue cabling?

If I have to use brown/blue is mixed colour coding allowed at the consumer box?

as they appear to be, then I'm afraid they are complete b****cks.

Fully aware of that - though there is a requirement of my scheme membership (codes of practice) that all work undertaken must be completed in accordance with the requirements of the BS 7671.

And BS 7671 permits deviations.


Let's step back for a few minutes.

1. BS 7671 requires that a caution/warning notice be applied if mixed colours are used.
   
   This can only mean that BS 7671 recognises that mixed colours introduces hazards not present with unmixed colour schemes which people need to be alerted to.
   
2. THE LAW requires people to make reasonable provision in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.
   
3. Therefore if you can reasonably avoid gratuitously introducing hazards stemming from mixed colours you are obliged to do so.

bazmdiy - if you have red/black cables available to extend a red/black installation, and they are in good condition and do not have a more reasonable use than extending this installation then not only may they be used, the law demands that they be used.

 

[riveralt]

[*] THE LAW requires people to make reasonable provision in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

This can be achieved by using the harmonised colours.

[*] Therefore if you can reasonably avoid gratuitously introducing hazards stemming from mixed colours you are obliged to do so.
bazmdiy - if you have red/black cables available to extend a red/black installation, and they are in good condition and do not have a more reasonable use than extending this installation then not only may they be used, the law demands that they be used.

That is absolute gibberish bas - the lateness of the night has clearly got to your braincells.
If I follow your somewhat illogical thought process then whenever I extend a circuit in house that is wired in the old colours (the vast majority of households in the country) and I have good quality stock of the old colour cable - the law (or at least your version of it) DEMANDS that I use it - RUBBISH!!!!

 

[GaryMo]

You have to ask yourself what constitutes the biggest danger or confusion to a general DIY'er who decides to carry out future work on an installation:

1 - Extending existing circuits wired in red/black insulated conductors with red/black insulated conductors.

2 - Extending existing circuits wired in red/black insulated conductors with brown/blue insulated conductors and placing a sticker on the consumer unit notifying of mixed coloured conductors within the installation.

 

[bazmdiy]

Thank you all very much for contributions.

I should have said the extension is a replacement for a previous ext - which was wired in red/black. It justs seems such a waste to scrap unused cable for the sake of an EU regulation. Red/black was legit as recent as 2006.

The old wiring I removed leaving the stubs from the main house (the consumer box is new with RCD protection).

I want to do the layout myself because I don't want the hassle of providing a detailed final design. Also I can change my mind any number of times (or at least my wife can).

I intend to get a private electrician to connect up everything and certify the work (although I was tempted by an inspectors suggestion that I could do all the work and get them to certify it!).

Ideally I would like the whole building to have one colour code unless their are safety issues eg r-g colour blindness?

I will contact Building Control and see what they say about red/black wiring. Will post back with their comments.

Once again many thanks for helpful responses.