Wiring up a shed via a plug socket.

[Speck]

Posted this question on another forum a few weeks ago and it did not go down well. Was told that what I was trying to do was illegal and dangerous and that I was a chancer. Despite asking though, no one would explain why it was illegal and dangerous? Anyway, here goes......

I would like to wire up my shed and power it from a spare way on my house consumer unit. I would like to do it by wiring in a 16 amp "Commando" style socket to the consumer unit and mount it on the wall at the back of my house. I would the wire up the shed ring main style onto its own mini consumer unit. Finally I would the supply the shed consumer unit via a flexible lead to the 16 amp socket on the house, in the same way caravans are supplied on sites.

If what I am proposing is dangerous or illegal then why? Wearing my asbestos underpants ready for the flaming I might get!!

Many thanks in advance.

 

[deadshort]

Hi, firstly you don't require a cu in the shed. you can use a fuse connection unit to supply the lighting and fuse it at 3a, this would be wired to your sockets which would be wired directly to your 16a plug via 1.5mm cacle a you would for a caravan. The most important thing is the circuit must be RCD protected.

Regards,

DS

PS the wiring to the 16a socket should be 2.5mm twin and earth.

 

[Speck]

Well that was quite helpful, and unexpected. So its no dangerous then?The house consumer unit is RCD protected so that takes care of that.
With regards to the 16 am socket, I was thinking of a single run of 4mm T&E from socket to consumer unit with a 16 amp MCB. Would that be ok?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I agree with deadshort.

Plus - you don't need a Ring circuit in the shed.

It'll just be a glorified extension lead.

 

[deadshort]

Hi, yes 4mm would be fine but not actually required 2.5mm is ok. Just make sure the cable is properly glanded into your socket outside.


Regards,

DS

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If what I am proposing is dangerous or illegal then why?

"Why?" is the question I'd ask you.

As in "Why do you want to do it that way rather than doing it properly?"

Caravans move about, they come, they go, so there's no choice but to plug in a hook up like that. Your shed, presumably, does not move about, and stays where you have put it, so you do have a choice. Why choose to make it a glorified portable appliance?

As for dangerous or illegal, you and I both know what's going to happen - you are going to leave it plugged in, so you'll have a flex trailing across the garden on a permanent basis.

And that is dangerous and therefore illegal.

 

[Speck]

If what I am proposing is dangerous or illegal then why?

"Why?" is the question I'd ask you.

As in "Why do you want to do it that way rather than doing it properly?"

Caravans move about, they come, they go, so there's no choice but to plug in a hook up like that. Your shed, presumably, does not move about, and stays where you have put it, so you do have a choice. Why choose to make it a glorified portable appliance?

As for dangerous or illegal, you and I both know what's going to happen - you are going to leave it plugged in, so you'll have a flex trailing across the garden on a permanent basis.

And that is dangerous and therefore illegal.

I was waiting for someone to ask the "why" question.
The reason is I want to get around the regulations, but in a legal way. To do it "properly" I would have to employ an electrician who is Part P verified to do the whole job, wire up the shed, bury an SWA cable in the ground etc etc. This would be expensive. I could do it myself and get a part P electrician to sign it off but I am lead to believe I would have difficulty getting a spark to sign off someone else work. Also, it is likely he would want to see it at various stages, such as the trench for the SWA before it was back filled.
By doing it my way I can do the shed wiring myself. I would only need to get a part p electrician to fit the 16 amp socket. What I plug into it is not his concern. In addition the 16 amp socket would be useful for high consumption devices such as a welder or compressor.
As to the question of will I leave it plugged in? Yes, highly likely, but it will be securely clipped along the garden wall so will never pose a trip hazard.

What I am doing may not please your seasoned electrician, but if its legal I am doing it, if its not then I won't.

 

[deadshort]

Put some wheels on the shed


DS

 

[Speck]

This is where I got into trouble on the last forum I posted this question on. It seems that certain "qualified" electricians were horrified that I was looking at ways around the regulations. Probably upset that I was finding ways of doing work that ideally they would like to be paid to do?

 

[JohnW2]

By doing it my way I can do the shed wiring myself. I would only need to get a part p electrician to fit the 16 amp socket. What I plug into it is not his concern.

I'm not so sure about that. 16A (unshuttered) sockets such as you plan to use are generally not allowed in domestic premises. There are some exceptions, but the electrician would have to consider whether the proposed use would make such a socket compliant with the regulations - so your intended use probably would be very much "his/her concern".

In addition the 16 amp socket would be useful for high consumption devices such as a welder or compressor.

By the back wall of your house? You also need to be prepared for discussions about the fact that you are meant to get permission from the DNO before using items such as welders and (probably compressors)!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Speck]

Right, firstly there will be no trailing lead across the lawn, it will be securely clipped to a wall as already stated in an earlier post, although even if it was trailing across the lawn I am not sure it would actually be illegal, i.e. an offence, if it was then surely every man who mows his lawn is a criminal?

Now, when is an extension lead not an extension lead? If I run an extension lead down the garden then thats legal ok? When does it become an electrical installation that will require certification? When I clip it to a fence? When I fix the socket end to a wall? When I attach another socket or two to the end of it? You see where I am going with this? In order to get an electrical supply to my shed how far can I go without having to call in a certified electrician?

I want to save money and I will not break the law. If what I am doing is illegal then it will not be done. Yes, I am quite ignorant of what all the rules and regulations are, that is why I am here asking the questions. If I cannot do that then what is the point of this forum?

With regards to the blue 16 amp socket. I have already contacted a very well respected and long established electrical contracting firm who are happy to fit it for me. They asked no questions about its use. They are a quality company that carry out local authority work.

So in summary, there will now be no consumer unit, just sockets and lighting operating from a fused spur. So, how far can I LEGALLY go?

 

[Nozzle]

You also need to be prepared for discussions about the fact that you are meant to get permission from the DNO before using items such as welders and (probably compressors)!

Kind Regards, John

I'd like to know more about this - I own both and in none of the instruction manuals does it say let the electric company/distributor know about the installation. With that in mind, how is the end user supposed to know of this requirement?

Nozzle

 

[skotl]

You also need to be prepared for discussions about the fact that you are meant to get permission from the DNO before using items such as welders and (probably compressors)!

Kind Regards, John

I'd like to know more about this - I own both and in none of the instruction manuals does it say let the electric company/distributor know about the installation. With that in mind, how is the end user supposed to know of this requirement?

Nozzle

//www.diynot.com/diy/threads/welding-socket-needed-for-17th-edition-board.417054/

Enjoy!

(in the interest of brevity, page five is probably the most useful)

 

[JohnW2]

You also need to be prepared for discussions about the fact that you are meant to get permission from the DNO before using items such as welders and (probably compressors)!

I'd like to know more about this - I own both and in none of the instruction manuals does it say let the electric company/distributor know about the installation. With that in mind, how is the end user supposed to know of this requirement?

Indeed - a very good question. As I've observed in the recent discussions, I'm quite sure that the majority of users of these items are blissfully unaware of the requirement (and I suspect that a good few of those who are aware of it choose to ignore it!)! However, as in all things, 'ignorance of the law' is not a defence, and I don't think that one can say that it's down to manufacturers of these items to educate their customers about legal requirements (although it would be nice/kind of them if they did!).

You have been directed to the recent extensive discussions about this - happy reading!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Right, firstly there will be no trailing lead across the lawn, it will be securely clipped to a wall as already stated in an earlier post, although even if it was trailing across the lawn I am not sure it would actually be illegal, i.e. an offence, if it was then surely every man who mows his lawn is a criminal?

There's a slight difference between an extension lead used on a temporary basis because it's the only way to make the (electric) mower work, and an extension lead just left lying in the back of the flower bed because someone wanted to "fudge" the system.

But a cable securely clipped to a fence, if it is a suitable cable for the job taking into account such things and environment and external influences (ie is it likely to get damaged), would be legal.
The thing is, using the plug & socket actually doesn't make the slightest bit of difference interms of legality or "paperwork".
The socket and it's supply are a new circuit, and that is still notifiable. There are two routes, getting an electrician to "sign it off" is not one of them.

1) Option one is to employ a qualified electrician who is a member of an approved scheme. He (or she) can self notify through his scheme for a pittance.

2) The other option is to notify your Local Authority Building Control department before starting work, do the work, let them perform whatever inspections/tests they deem necessary, and after you've finished they will issue a completion notice.

Those are the ONLY legal options you have.

If you go down the latter route, you will need to convince the LABC that you have the knowledge and skills required to properly design and install the works, and that you have the tools and knowledge to properly test it. This is where you can delegate to a qualified sparky - if you can come to the right arrangement, then he may help you with the design, and may be prepared to test the works and provide the test results LABC will ask for.
If you can't provide acceptable test results, then LABC will charge you more to cover the cost of getting an electrician in to do them.

Depending on the works, local rates, LABC charges, etc - it may be cheaper one way or the other. Some LABCs charge fees that make it cheaper in a lot of cases to have a professional sparky do it and notify via his scheme.


PS - there is no such thing as a "part P" electrician.