Slightly off topic, but did anyone see Barca v Valencia tonight? Messi, was even by his standards, awesome. His 4th goal.................... I was just laughing, it was ludicrous. The guy is an absolute genius.

I didn't see it, but there's many a time I've had to laugh at the things that little fella does.
I've never seen anyone else who could leave you so gobsmacked as him, maybe the modern balls help a bit but he's got to be the best ever by a distance.

Personally I think messi is a fantastic player but for now I still think maradonna pips him for his ability to turn crap/poor teams into winners literally by himself Napoli and Argentina.

Pele pips him for longevity,.honors won and goals scored at the highest level.

Zidane has done it all as well at every level scoring and controlling matches

Messi plays in a team of geniuses and he shines , the last world cup in a pretty strong argentina team he flopped as they did.

Until he does it at TOP international level he won't be up there with the aforementioned
3 , though I believe he may well do so at some point in the future

The list is long and contains many names, some of whom maybe forgotten due to time

For me its about players that have taken the game to another level

Garrincha,Pele,Cruyff, Maradonna,Zidane,Platini,Messi, Best, Ronaldo(brazil)
Ronaldo(portugal), Beckenbaur,Eusebio


to be the very best you need to do it at world cup level..imo

Whether he shines at a world cup or not he's still the best I've seen. I judge him by what my eyes see him do, not where he's done it.
Besides there's an argument to say that the teams in the later stages of the champions league are better than most international teams. Usually all full internationals, but playing together week after week. Messi's done the business plenty of times there, which you don't need reminding about I'm sure.
Maradona was unbelievable, I think Messi's better.

Pele I think is thought of as a genius because of his first world cup finals and his goal tally at club level.

Although a great player, he is more famous for playing in 4 WC finals, and it was his first that got him all the attention. The second world cup he only played 1 game, the 3rd Brazil where knocked out in the first round...and the last in 1970 he didnt want to ptlay, but did so with a lot of world class players along side him.

He only ever played really for 1 club, Santos, in a very very poor league...had a spell in America for couple of years. He never played in Europe and if he did, he could have been the best player that has ever lived.

I dont think you have to be outstanding in a World Cup finals to be considered great. National teams can have a few good players, then be made up with average players....apart from the Brazil team of 1970, that was a team full of stars.

Steven Gerrard, Beckham, Rooney etc, all considered in their prime as world class.....England, not a world class team.

For me, Messi is the complete footballer, and the best I have ever seen. What he does with a ball is magical and he stands out, even in a team of world class players.

My top 5 players in order would be:

Messi.....still young and will get better and better
Zidane
Maradona
Pele
Beckenbauer

i think we shall have to agree to disagree

As a united fan i appreciate brilliant football and take my hat off to barca and messi for superb performances against us

remember when the united fans gave ronaldo a standing ovation when he scored a hat trick for real madrid at Old trafford not many clubs would do that

for me who do you it for and with counts and so ultimately do world cups

like i said messi does it with a team of geniuses who would likely win without him, maradona did it by himself with a whole nation counting on JUST him.

I also think is control and ability ot RUN a game by himself is currently unsurpassed

Messi, 200 games in a Barca shirt and 146 goals. That speaks volumes of the little fella.
Last night against Valencia he simply destroyed them, mentally you could see the pain on the Valencia defender's faces at having to cope with him. And then, having chased shadows for 80% of the game Barca bring on Oscar Tello who has to be one of the quickest wingers I have seen since Overmaars.

Messi, I think is the best ever in terms of personal ability but there are further elements in the game that other players may have shaded so to say he's the best ever period... I reckon that's more difficult to call.

That's why I said about personal ability Sooey, the things that lad does is unreal.