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snico

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 pm Reply with quote

spacecat wrote:
The proof is in the results kidda not every signing is perfect liverpool have signed many a DONKEY............TAXI FOR CARROLL! amongst many others

But for the last 20 years united have been THE PREMIERSHIP CLUB......end of

Somethings working isn't it......


United have signed many a donkey too.....and United fans know it.

Uniteds recent success has been down to a lot of luck also, as Fergie himself said..."we where lucky we had them when we did"

He was talking about the 'Fergie Fledglings' look it up if you are not familiar with the phrase.

He had the likes of Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Butt, Neville brothers all arrive at the roughly the same time....it was unheard of for so many good young players to come through at once. It wasnt down to the academy, it was just luck that they all appeared at once....it hasn't happend since.
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snico

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:36 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Btw Forlan was voted best player and top scorer at the last world cup!

He didn't make it for us, maybe not suited to the premiership but he is a superb player


Ngog anyone?


You may have noticed but Ngog doesnt play for Liverpool anymore...and when he did he was only a bit part player. He was sold and the money used pays the wages now for a better player we got for free....very good bit of business.
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hotrod

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:22 am Reply with quote

Slightly off topic, but did anyone see Barca v Valencia tonight? Messi, was even by his standards, awesome. His 4th goal.................... I was just laughing, it was ludicrous. The guy is an absolute genius.
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sooey

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:33 am Reply with quote

I didn't see it, but there's many a time I've had to laugh at the things that little fella does.
I've never seen anyone else who could leave you so gobsmacked as him, maybe the modern balls help a bit but he's got to be the best ever by a distance.
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spacecat

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:03 am Reply with quote

Personally I think messi is a fantastic player but for now I still think maradonna pips him for his ability to turn crap/poor teams into winners literally by himself Napoli and Argentina.

Pele pips him for longevity,.honors won and goals scored at the highest level.

Zidane has done it all as well at every level scoring and controlling matches

Messi plays in a team of geniuses and he shines , the last world cup in a pretty strong argentina team he flopped as they did.

Until he does it at TOP international level he won't be up there with the aforementioned
3 , though I believe he may well do so at some point in the future
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enyam

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:22 am Reply with quote

sooey wrote:
I've never seen anyone else who could leave you so gobsmacked as him, maybe the modern balls help a bit but he's got to be the best ever by a distance.


Surely its all a question of opinion's.Sir Robert Charlton played with George Best and Duncan Edwards,he maintains that Edwards was the best he ever played with.Puskas who was in the Real Madrid team that carried all before them in the early sixties was no slouch.Gerson the midfield general Of Brazil in the 70's world cup,the list is endless.
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spacecat

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:34 am Reply with quote

The list is long and contains many names, some of whom maybe forgotten due to time

For me its about players that have taken the game to another level

Garrincha,Pele,Cruyff, Maradonna,Zidane,Platini,Messi, Best, Ronaldo(brazil)
Ronaldo(portugal), Beckenbaur,Eusebio


to be the very best you need to do it at world cup level..imo
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sooey

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:16 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Messi plays in a team of geniuses and he shines , the last world cup in a pretty strong argentina team he flopped as they did. Until he does it at TOP international level he won't be up there with the aforementioned 3 , though I believe he may well do so at some point in the future
Fair comment, a lot of people think the same way. I don't agree, for me it's the things he does with the ball individually that stand out. I've seen most of the players mentioned, and none of them, with the possible exception of Maradona come near to his level of skill and balance.
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spacecat

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:09 pm Reply with quote

sooey wrote:
Quote:
Messi plays in a team of geniuses and he shines , the last world cup in a pretty strong argentina team he flopped as they did. Until he does it at TOP international level he won't be up there with the aforementioned 3 , though I believe he may well do so at some point in the future
Fair comment, a lot of people think the same way. I don't agree, for me it's the things he does with the ball individually that stand out. I've seen most of the players mentioned, and none of them, with the possible exception of Maradona come near to his level of skill and balance.


skill, balance and an amazing talent no doubt, but can he do it when ALL the pressure is on him mentally so far the answer is no.

I would say maradonna is his equal if not better skill and balance wise
they both scored a wonder goal ..Maradonna did it in a world cup quarter final with the whole of Argentina counting in him, Messi did it against some run of the mill spanish team in la liga

.
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sooey

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:14 pm Reply with quote

Whether he shines at a world cup or not he's still the best I've seen. I judge him by what my eyes see him do, not where he's done it.
Besides there's an argument to say that the teams in the later stages of the champions league are better than most international teams. Usually all full internationals, but playing together week after week. Messi's done the business plenty of times there, which you don't need reminding about I'm sure.
Maradona was unbelievable, I think Messi's better.
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snico

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:57 pm Reply with quote

Pele I think is thought of as a genius because of his first world cup finals and his goal tally at club level.

Although a great player, he is more famous for playing in 4 WC finals, and it was his first that got him all the attention. The second world cup he only played 1 game, the 3rd Brazil where knocked out in the first round...and the last in 1970 he didnt want to ptlay, but did so with a lot of world class players along side him.

He only ever played really for 1 club, Santos, in a very very poor league...had a spell in America for couple of years. He never played in Europe and if he did, he could have been the best player that has ever lived.

I dont think you have to be outstanding in a World Cup finals to be considered great. National teams can have a few good players, then be made up with average players....apart from the Brazil team of 1970, that was a team full of stars.

Steven Gerrard, Beckham, Rooney etc, all considered in their prime as world class.....England, not a world class team.

For me, Messi is the complete footballer, and the best I have ever seen. What he does with a ball is magical and he stands out, even in a team of world class players.

My top 5 players in order would be:

Messi.....still young and will get better and better
Zidane
Maradona
Pele
Beckenbauer
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spacecat

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:04 pm Reply with quote

i think we shall have to agree to disagree

As a united fan i appreciate brilliant football and take my hat off to barca and messi for superb performances against us

remember when the united fans gave ronaldo a standing ovation when he scored a hat trick for real madrid at Old trafford not many clubs would do that

for me who do you it for and with counts and so ultimately do world cups

like i said messi does it with a team of geniuses who would likely win without him, maradona did it by himself with a whole nation counting on JUST him.

I also think is control and ability ot RUN a game by himself is currently unsurpassed
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Djnikon

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:57 pm Reply with quote

Messi, 200 games in a Barca shirt and 146 goals. That speaks volumes of the little fella.
Last night against Valencia he simply destroyed them, mentally you could see the pain on the Valencia defender's faces at having to cope with him. And then, having chased shadows for 80% of the game Barca bring on Oscar Tello who has to be one of the quickest wingers I have seen since Overmaars.

Messi, I think is the best ever in terms of personal ability but there are further elements in the game that other players may have shaded so to say he's the best ever period... I reckon that's more difficult to call.
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sooey

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:39 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Messi, I think is the best ever in terms of personal ability but there are further elements in the game that other players may have shaded so to say he's the best ever period... I reckon that's more difficult to call.


That would apply to any player nominated as best ever.
I would go by the level of sheer astonishment a player can engender in viewers, that's the only way I can think of to judge.
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noseall (20 Feb 2012), Djnikon (20 Feb 2012)
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Djnikon

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:40 pm Reply with quote

That's why I said about personal ability Sooey, the things that lad does is unreal.
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