R
RogueHanger
Well, at least Mr Condell has the courage to stand up and be recognised, not like the KKK/NF members on this foum.
- Status
Well, at least Mr Condell has the courage to stand up and be recognised, not like the KKK/NF members on this foum.
Sponsored Links
D
Deleted member 63160
Moreover, anyone who thinks that slavery was/is abhorrent must have a chip on their shoulder?
Not so. Those that bleat on about events that occured hundreds of years ago as if they have current value, they're the ones whose delts are loaded with McCains finest.
R
RogueHanger
Your poor (or lack of education) is eminent. Is this another case of "the national amnesia"?
Certainly slavery was exploited for hundreds of years. But slavery was only abolished (in UK) 181 years ago, although the slaves were not freed for a further six years, (and slavery continued in parts of the British Empire). This was just before my great grandparents were born, so not so long ago. Definitely understandable that the wealth generated (including the compensation paid by UK government to slave owners) is still enjoyed by those great, great grandchildren.
In context, my great, great grandparents could have been involved in the slave trade, in one form or another. My grandparents were in WW1 and my parents were in WW11.
Slavery existed, as we know it, for about 300 years, the wars lasted four to six years.
It is absolutely understandable that the injustice (and the awareness of the unfair distribution of wealth) that ocurred would still be felt amonst the great, great grandchildren. The wealth that was created would be considered as derived from criminal activities, by today's standards and would be recoverable, via legal process.
What is easily possible is to recover that which is recoverable, i.e the compensation paid by UK government. What would not be possible is to recompense those affected by the injustice of slavery.
Finally, you can utilise any derogatory terms you like denigrating those who raise the national conscience of any issue, but that only diminishes those who refuse to accept or recognise these issues, out-of-hand.
You have every right to hold and express your views. But in using language that tries to belittle those that hold alternative views, and only stating your view without any justification or foundations, you only weaken your own argument and demonstrate your ineffectiveness of expressing yourself.
Sponsored Links
Do you not consider the English to have been slaves themselves, apart from the 'owners' of course, for far longer?
These 'owners' merely exploiting the rest of the world in the manner to which they were accustomed at home.
These 'owners' merely exploiting the rest of the world in the manner to which they were accustomed at home.
So, lets get this right, ,,,, you still expect us to apologise for something that happened at least a hundred and forty years before we were born??
Get real man.. FFS next you'll be wanting the church to apologise for Adam and Eve and their "original sin".
You go live in the past Rogue. Leave the present to those of us fortunate to be living in it.
PS,, Iceland have McCains on special offer this week... You might well want to top up those chips on your shoulders.
PPS, If you really want to make "reparations" for the slave trade.. May I suggest, you withdraw all of your money from the bank, place it in your wallet and enjoy a leisurely stroll around Newham or Tower Hamlets at night... Won't take long for someone affected by the slave trade, to relieve you of your cash, mobile phone and watch.
R
RogueHanger
You misunderstand, I don't expect you do do anything other than to continue your venomous racist comments, while hiding behind your cloak of anonymity, because that's the only kind of behaviour that you're used to and capable of.
Your lack of sensible analogies, omission of reasoning and use of abusive comments indicates your inability to discuss issues rationally and your inability to understand any issues outside of your immediate sphere of awareness.
I believe that before we can move forward, we need to know where we have been, where we are now, and how we arrived here.
You seem to believe that we should ignore anything that happened in the past and deal only with the present. Perhaps that extends to having no concern for whatever happens in the future?
You obviously have no empathy with anyone else but those who share your views.
I hope that as you grow up, your awareness of history, and subsequent future, improves.
And you misunderstand me Rogue.. I can't apologise for some crime/event committed by a long forgotten ancestor and neither should anyone else. We have to live in the present and shouldn't dwell on the past. We can't go back and change anything. Whilst accepting your point about "learning from the past", I do feel we shouldn't be apologising for anything we have no control over..
You however, in this and other threads, seem hell bent on making us all feel guilty for the sins of the father, grandfather, great grandfather, great, great grandfather (ad nauseum)
You however, in this and other threads, seem hell bent on making us all feel guilty for the sins of the father, grandfather, great grandfather, great, great grandfather (ad nauseum)
The lefties have to justify their demented support for an immigration policy that's as open-door as possible. Making out that the current population of The UK somehow owes something for the perceived 'sins' of their forefathers is how they do it.
What they are too slow to realise is, that only the elite and those at the top benefitted in past centuries. Now, it's only the working/lower middle class that suffer the effects of poorly controlled immigration. The lefties obviously despise ordinary, hard working people in this country, because they are always the ones who lose out the most.
What they are too slow to realise is, that only the elite and those at the top benefitted in past centuries. Now, it's only the working/lower middle class that suffer the effects of poorly controlled immigration. The lefties obviously despise ordinary, hard working people in this country, because they are always the ones who lose out the most.
From my (limited) experiences in conflict resolution , acknowledgement is more feasible and workable as a necessary step to reconciliation than a blame/apology approach.
Acknowledged.
R
RogueHanger
You've grabbed an Aunt Sally argument, picked up by others, and won't let go of it.
Nowhere have I asked or expected you or anyone else as individuals to apologise for the slave trade of the past or present.
Neither have I suggested that direct descendants of the wealth generated by that trade should apologise.
I've merely asked, suggested, implied that it is possible to understand the sentiments of those descendants who suffered from the abhorrent trade.
Instead you, and your EDL friends, use abusive terms trying to denigrate other people and their sentiments. That, IMO, is unacceptable.
Again, the use of your Aunt Sally argument.
I only wish that some would understand the sentiments of others, rather than try to belittle them with abuse.
Another Aunt Sally argument.
Now, please try to support your arguments with sound reason, rather than persisiting with your abusive behaviour or Aunt Sally arguments.
I won't hold my breath.
I'm tempted to use Joe's favourite saying now but I'd rather use my own words:
You know what you're like, so cocksure of your own superiority that you can hardly believe I keep thashing you. It takes a certain kind of arrogance to ignore getting your backside tanned for you so many times, but you do manage it. Don't ask me how.
TBH, they're not absolutely my words, I did purloin them from Conn Iggulden (Stormbird, War of the Roses) and change them a little.
Rogue will probably claim that the chap there was a professional stuntman..
Anyway Rogue,, whilst you may not ask that we apologise for the slave trade, you seem to think that reparation for it is alright... OK, why should I or anyone else pay reparation for the sins of our forefathers?
If your old man was found guilty of shoplifting, I suppose you'd pay his fine?? Do his community service for him? Spend time in jail for him?
Sorry Rogue, the law is quite clear here, The wrongdoer is the one that's punished,, not the offspring of the wrongdoer.. My conscience is clear,, I'll sleep easy tonight, safe in the knowledge, I, personally, didn't take part in the slave trade.
Anyway Rogue,, whilst you may not ask that we apologise for the slave trade, you seem to think that reparation for it is alright... OK, why should I or anyone else pay reparation for the sins of our forefathers?
If your old man was found guilty of shoplifting, I suppose you'd pay his fine?? Do his community service for him? Spend time in jail for him?
Sorry Rogue, the law is quite clear here, The wrongdoer is the one that's punished,, not the offspring of the wrongdoer.. My conscience is clear,, I'll sleep easy tonight, safe in the knowledge, I, personally, didn't take part in the slave trade.
I don't think the analogy of personal responsibility and state responsibility holds true.
When a government changes, the next lot of people in charge have to abide by the treaties etc that the state entered under previous govts.
In the same way the govt of the day is responsible for paying damages for previous govt actions or responsibilities.
The issue in the case of slavery is more one of time elapsed in my view.
When a government changes, the next lot of people in charge have to abide by the treaties etc that the state entered under previous govts.
In the same way the govt of the day is responsible for paying damages for previous govt actions or responsibilities.
The issue in the case of slavery is more one of time elapsed in my view.
R
RogueHanger
You must be a very sick individual to go searching t'internet for this kind of material.
Then to try to associate it with slavery is some kind of perverted leap of imagination.
Is that because you couldn't find any other thread to post it? More strawman arguments.
Apart from your use of even more strawman arguments, I do so wish that you would read and make some attempt to understand my posts:
I'm so glad that there is at least one intelligent poster contributing to this thread.
Eloquently explained, Micilin. But I thought it was obvious and didn't need explaining.
Additionally, your use of sound reasoning rather than strawman arguments or abusive behaviour adds credence to your arguments.
However, I think your suggestion that time elapsed is sufficient to dismiss the issue depends rather on the extent of damage/benefit caused/ gained by those issues.
For example Argentina's claim to the Falklands relies on a longer time frame than the abolition of slavery (not the beginning of slavery). I accept the argument that there may have been other factors/influences that caused the Argentinian invasion in 1982. But the invasion was based on their territorial claim.
There are other examples: Spain's claim to Gibraltar. China's claim to Hong Kong, etc.
IMO, it is easily understandable that the descendants of the victims of slavery see the compensation paid, by UK government, to the beneficiaries of slavery as perverted, unjust and recoverable.
- Status
Sponsored Links
