Atag A325EC or Intergas Combi Compact HRE 36/30 ?

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Atag A325EC or Intergas Combi Compact HRE 36/30 ?

Which of the two would you go for, and Why?


I'm in Leicester, and am REALLY struggling to decide which to go for:-

They both have a SEDBUK Sap seasonal efficiency of about 90%, and both support a weather compensation sensor.

The intergas:
-is SO elegantly simple in it's design, with very little to go wrong (No diverter valve, no secondary heat exchanger, reduced number of sensors).
-BUT, only has about 56% Hot water efficiency (really not that great), and cannot be used with a Flue Gas Heat Recovery system such as a GasSaver to improve that weakness.

Now Flue Gas Heat recovery Units do seem to be very expensive (£700-£800), and so may take ten years or more to pay for themselves in fuel savings, ...they are therefore probably not really an option for me.

but then along comes the Atag, and:
-It has Flue Gas Heat Recovery built right in!!! But at only an additional cost of around £200 -£250 more than the Intergas boiler... this supposedly then gives me a DHW efficiency of about 80-85%. This extra couple of hundred quid would probably therefore be paid for by fuel savings in around just three years (according to my very rough reckoning).
-But the Atag is as complex as most other combi's... loads of parts, sensors, electronics, a diverter valve, secondary DHW heat exchanger (and then a tertiary one in the flue too!).

The size and aesthetics of the boilers are really not important to me, as it's going in a utility area.

I figure that the Atag (If it proves reliable in not requiring major replacement parts) may 75% pay for it's self by the gas that it saves if it lasts for 15 years or so. But IF it is going to cost me a couple of diverter valves during that time, or a number of sensors, fans, pump etc... then it might well end up being a false economy compared to the Intergas.

I have a solid mechanical and electronic engineering background, so can understand and diagnose these sort of systems pretty well. I can repair/replace many components myself (avoiding the gas regulating parts of the system of course). But if I get stuck, then I wonder what the Atag skill level amongst local RGI's and the availability/cost of parts is like out there?

So folks... Do I go for the simple boiler with the lower DHW efficiency, or go for the more complex boiler with much better DHW efficiency... Which do you think is likely to give the lowest total cost of ownership over 15 years?

Any of your thoughts, advice, ramblings, etc... will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.... Craig.
 
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If the size is not an issue then Atag all day.

I have been working on the Intergas boilers for nearly a decade, but the Atag is far more efficient even if it is a little more complicated.

Either way, is there was a fault on them within the 5 year warranty (you need an approved installer) then you don't need to worry about fixing them as the manufacturer will (should) organise that.

Besides, if you had a fault and the person attending was phased by not recognising the boiler and not understanding its operation within 5 minutes of looking at it; you have to ask if you actually WANT them working on your appliance.
 
Thank you for your educated-opinion Dan... much appreciated.

my local family-approved RGI is an intergas platinum installer, but had never heard of Atag when I spoke with him, so I've got to also decide whether I should stick with him if I go with the Atag and forgo the extended warranty, or go elsewhere.

Having said this, I am hoping that whichever boiler I go for will last for 15 to 20 years if maintained properly, so a five year warranty is probably not as significant as if I were installing a rubbish boiler instead.

Anyone else share your thoughts on which to go with, and why?
 
ATAG all the time I fit lots of them (approved installer) and you cant beat em. They are big and some say ugly BUT they are easy to work on and not that complex, the whole thing can be stripped with two allen keys and screw driver in minutes.

Gives more hot water for its size too thanks to the flue rec unit.

Both boilers rely on service engineers though so its best if you can get one fitted by a service engineer so any problems in the future can be easily and quickly sorted. Have heard bad things about intergas's responce time though.... butthat would again depend on you area and which engineers covered it. Fo example if you had an Intergas and lived near DanR I imagine he could/would sort it V fast but if you live miles from any agents you may have a wait
 
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many Thanks newgasinstaller.

Can anyone recommend an Atag registered guy to commission a boiler in Leicester?

(Also happy to keep receiving discussion, advice and comparisons between these two Intergas/Atag boilers.)

Anyone have anything to say about the DHW efficiency differences between them please? e.g. does the Flue gas heat recovery in the Atag really work as efficiently as it is meant to?
 
many Thanks newgasinstaller.

Can anyone recommend an Atag registered guy to commission a boiler in Leicester?

(Also happy to keep receiving discussion, advice and comparisons between these two Intergas/Atag boilers.)

Anyone have anything to say about the DHW efficiency differences between them please? e.g. does the Flue gas heat recovery in the Atag really work as efficiently as it is meant to?

You won't find many willing to instal an appliance they haven't supplied and fitted; and rightly so IMHO.

The heat recovery section makes a huge difference. Last one we commissioned had flue gases almost cool to the touch.
 
The Intergas does condense in hot water mode.

I would be taking those figures with a pinch of salt. It gives a hot water percentage for my boiler and it isn't even a combi :rolleyes:

They wouldn't be a factor in my purchase decision.
 
I never said it didn't condense in hot water mode Dan, but even if it is condensing, that doesn't mean it is extracting every last bit of energy out of the flue gasses.

I do think that SEBUK's 56% figure may be a little on the low side>>>

The manufacturers own figures state:

Intergas:
DHW Gas input:32.7kW, DHW Flow at 35 Degree delta:13 litres per minute

Atag:
DHW Gas input:34.2kW, DHW Flow at 35 Degree delta:15 litres per minute

So for the Atag, 4.5% more gas burn than the Intergas gives 15.4% more hot water per minute at the same temperature delta. This speaks for its self.

To be honest though, this suggests that either the Atag isn't quite as efficient as they state in DHW mode, or the Intergas is more efficient than SEDBUK gives it credit.
 
Like i said - SEDBUK is a load of Horlicks. How can my (officially at least) Heat Only boiler have a comparative hot water efficiency?

Treat it like you would the tech specs of a product listed in Screwfix catalogue IMHO.
 
In the case of your boiler Dan, it's clearly an errant figure in the database... Not exactly unusual to have a few bad values in a database with almost five and a half thousand entries!

Hardly seems to me to be a reason to rubbish the whole data-set though; or do you have further experience that indicates SEDBUK should be disregarded?
 
In fact, Maybe it isn't an errant figure... seems more like a synthetic figure that is calculated from other aspects of the boiler's performance. This is what the SEDBUK info says:

Comparative hot water efficiency

The purpose of this is to present a fair comparison between the water heating performance of boilers of different types (both regular and combi). The comparative hot water efficiency is not needed for SAP, and is not the same as the result from the European test standard for measuring the water heating performance of gas combis. If hot water performance is of particular concern then the comparative hot water efficiency can be used as a guide to annual average hot water efficiency
 
I just don't trust it to give real world figures with any meaning.

And why should a database like that not be expected to be accurate?

How do they come to these figures?

What is the margin for error? And how can that subsequently affect a boilers rating?

Have had experience of a product being removed from market due to it not quite making it to a certain level of efficiency. The goalposts were moved, - so the boiler became available again. When it was looked into, the margin for error was bigger than the difference between the two positions.

Probably haven;t explained myself very well there... but it.... it is also possibly of interest to note that with a few presses of some buttons you can push several boilers down a SEDBUK band or two just by adjusting certain parameters.


Who was it that said there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. ;).
 
In fact, Maybe it isn't an errant figure... seems more like a synthetic figure that is calculated from other aspects of the boiler's performance. This is what the SEDBUK info says:

Comparative hot water efficiency

The purpose of this is to present a fair comparison between the water heating performance of boilers of different types (both regular and combi). The comparative hot water efficiency is not needed for SAP, and is not the same as the result from the European test standard for measuring the water heating performance of gas combis. If hot water performance is of particular concern then the comparative hot water efficiency can be used as a guide to annual average hot water efficiency

So how do they calculate it? I can tweak a few settings and get my hot water performance as good as the heating.

The point being SEDBUK doesn't take into account system design or how the boiler is installed which will have far more bearing on your pocket than the difference between the Manufacturer and SEDBUK's various figures.
 

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