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Gas Safe Help - At risk boiler due to flue location

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JJH

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:38 am Reply with quote

Hi,
I am a landlord of a small property (my own home previous) whilst serving in Italy. We have just had a BG homecare inspection, and they have wacked a 'at risk' sticker on our boiler. I understand they have not disconnected the gas. It was placed on the distance of the Flue from the kitchen window, which at present does open. This space is outside of the house and well ventilated. I understand the minimum distance is 300MM? We do have CO detectors fitted in the house. My question is basically,
1. do I have to do anything about this - The flue has passed the previous 4 safety inspections. I'm pretty sure the flue hasn't moved due to it being in the wall?!
2. Can I take it 'at risk' if the tenant is happy to do so? It's 200 or so MM from the window, and has never been a problem before now. The boiler is well serviced and there is nothing wrong with it other than the flue location. Basically, am I obliged to do anything about it?
3. Why was it not an issue before? Have the regs changed recently?
4. I imagine this 300mm thing only applied to windows that can be opened? Can I seal the window if i'm obliged to do something?
Please help me if possible, it's a bit of a worry at the moment - I'm not a faceless corporate landlord and cannot afford a new boiler/having it moved if it's not necessary, and being posted with the Forces to Italy makes this even harder to sort out!

Many Thanks
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Agile

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:30 pm Reply with quote

Its up to the engineer to classify it as At Risk or Not to Current Standards.

The window could be screwed closed.

But if you do that in the kitchen and its the only opening window then it probably becomes At Risk if you have a gas cooker.

BG have probably asked their engineers to be more consistant ( strict ) with their classifications!

Tony
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The following user says thank you to Agile for this useful post:
JJH (30 Apr 2012)
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JJH

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:38 pm Reply with quote

Thanks Tony,

Does that mean that I do have to do something about it? Or can I take the Flue positioning as 'at risk', which if the unit has not been condemned I would imagine is minimal?
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Tibbot

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:53 pm Reply with quote

It is illegal for you to allow the 'at risk' appliance to be used.
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JJH

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:44 pm Reply with quote

Why did they not shut it off from the gas main in that case? My wife has phone BG and they have said something completely different - ie the Certificate is valid and the tenant has been adviced of the risk, which is minimal?
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sooey

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:56 pm Reply with quote

It's not illegal for you or your tenant to use it.
You've been advised that there's a risk however slight, it should have been turned off at the time. If you want the tenant to turn it back on and carry on using it that's up to you and them.
But in the event that something nasty should happen because of the risk that you've been informed about, it will be your rse in a sling not the gas fellas.
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Tibbot

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:28 pm Reply with quote

If it was so minimal it would've been classed as not to current standards. If you could get another engineer to interpret it this way you could use it.

Sooey you're confusing your legals with your engineer's powers.

Eg. The engineer cannot stop you using it. However as stated on any 'at risk' label 'It is an offence to continue using an unsafe gas appliance under GSIUR'.

OP- Only immediately dangerous appliances must be disconnected/capped.
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sooey

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:39 pm Reply with quote

Fair comment, I stand corrected.
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ollski

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:18 pm Reply with quote

Tibbot wrote:
However as stated on any 'at risk' label 'It is an offence to continue using an unsafe gas appliance under GSIUR'.



You sure it doesn't say something more along the lines of 'it may be an offence to use a gas appliance knowing it to be at risk'. Bg throw these notices around like confetti to cover their behinds.
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Tibbot

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:41 pm Reply with quote

Copied it from my labels. I've never known any ambiguity about AR. That is it's not a recommendation not to use it. It's don't use it.

PS. The only difference on my ID ones is the word 'reconnect' instead of 'use'.
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namsag

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:58 pm Reply with quote

This is the correct wording. Of AR.
Explain to the gas user/responsible person that the appliance/or installation is in your opinion " At Risk (AR) and should not be used.
Continued use in these circumstances would be at the user or responsible person`s own responsibility and may be in breach of the law.
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mickyg

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:04 pm Reply with quote

Flue being too close to a window cannot be AR, this is a mistake. Its NCS or ID. If its too close its NCS. If there's evidence of POC entering the room then its ID. No AR. You can potentially sue BG for being over zealous and issuing an AR when in fact its not. People have successfully done this against companies in the past.
Its about time Gas engineers started applying the regulations in force not making up their own ones. "I'll just AR it to cover my a**e" its not an excuse.
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The following 3 users say thank you to mickyg for this useful post:
kirkgas (30 Apr 2012), FiremanT (30 Apr 2012), namsag (30 Apr 2012)
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Tibbot

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:16 pm Reply with quote

Whether the engineer was correct or not is another matter, hence telling the OP about a 2nd opinion. However a landlord cannot allow a tennant to use an AR classified appliance and not break the law.
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gaswizzard

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:38 pm Reply with quote

GIUSP state....

"Room sealed flue terminals located in positions which COULD allow combustion products to enter properties eg. discharging into semi-enclosed areas or in close proximity to windows , doors and vents" = ID

Now you can interprit the above how you wish. icon_biggrin.gif

Open flues state NCS.
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doitall

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:59 pm Reply with quote

Would be nice to know the make/model of the boiler.

Some manufacturers say less, and in any case you may be able to fit a diverter kit.
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