Hot Water issue - Potterton Puma 80e
- Thread starter eddieed
- Start date
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Well I have my fingers crossed as once he had the wax element flow control off (with some help from myself as he didn't have the right tools) there was a peice of something (admittedly looking like scale) in the end of the valve.
New part being fitted, although they haven't provided washers as they were not told that they didn't come with them! He thinks he has them with him though, lets hope so!
Now to test the water softner and make sure that works.
I just want to thank everybody on here for all the help and advice which has meant that this has been fixed under my contract. I will be writing a lengthy letter of complaint to nPower about their misdiagnosis.
New part being fitted, although they haven't provided washers as they were not told that they didn't come with them! He thinks he has them with him though, lets hope so!
Now to test the water softner and make sure that works.
I just want to thank everybody on here for all the help and advice which has meant that this has been fixed under my contract. I will be writing a lengthy letter of complaint to nPower about their misdiagnosis.
OK so I take it back. It seems that this hasn't resolved the issue.
It also seems that there is some scale in the boiler as well so maybe this is getting into the heat exchanger and has blocked it and my water softner is inefficient. At least I know now that they have checked everything else that it could have been.
I now have to decided if I want to spend money fixing this or we go down the path of a new one. I don't want to spen £300 fixing this now for it to break again in a few months and cost me another £300. A new boiler whilst not adding value to the house will be a selling point and its likely we will be here for another year at least!
So need to think it through! Once again thanks all for the help with this and the patience you have shown.
It also seems that there is some scale in the boiler as well so maybe this is getting into the heat exchanger and has blocked it and my water softner is inefficient. At least I know now that they have checked everything else that it could have been.
I now have to decided if I want to spend money fixing this or we go down the path of a new one. I don't want to spen £300 fixing this now for it to break again in a few months and cost me another £300. A new boiler whilst not adding value to the house will be a selling point and its likely we will be here for another year at least!
So need to think it through! Once again thanks all for the help with this and the patience you have shown.
Sorry, another update.
I thought that nothing had changed but was wrong. Previously the flow was the same no mater what was happening.
However now when we turn on the tap the pressure is very high, then it reduces down to the same as it was prior to parts replacement and then it stays like that. The water is significantly hotter than it was and the dial on the front of the boiler doesn't do much to change it - although I don't think it ever did really!
One final thing - the cold water now seems to make the boiler click and fire if the hot water has just been run!(and we think the coldwater pressure is higher but could be our imagination)
So the guy who has just left said he will try to get them to send out a gas tech, who can spend more time but not sure if it will be approved or not.
Any thoughts out there!
I thought that nothing had changed but was wrong. Previously the flow was the same no mater what was happening.
However now when we turn on the tap the pressure is very high, then it reduces down to the same as it was prior to parts replacement and then it stays like that. The water is significantly hotter than it was and the dial on the front of the boiler doesn't do much to change it - although I don't think it ever did really!
One final thing - the cold water now seems to make the boiler click and fire if the hot water has just been run!(and we think the coldwater pressure is higher but could be our imagination)
So the guy who has just left said he will try to get them to send out a gas tech, who can spend more time but not sure if it will be approved or not.
Any thoughts out there!
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Oh dear. You are still confusing the pressure with the flow!
Can you measure the flow when boiler is cold and first turned on.
Then measure the flow when it has got hot.
Has anyone even checked the filter at the back where the cold comes into the boiler?
I am intreagued what this "tech" person is! Surely not someone who knows how to repair boilers?
Tony
Can you measure the flow when boiler is cold and first turned on.
Then measure the flow when it has got hot.
Has anyone even checked the filter at the back where the cold comes into the boiler?
I am intreagued what this "tech" person is! Surely not someone who knows how to repair boilers?
Tony
Hi Tony,
I may get the words mixed up but I mean the same thing. Sorry I am not an expert on boilers and water heating. I am grateful for the continued help and I have spoken to Mike and will get him out once nPower say no more but I hope you can understand I want to get them to spend as much effort on it before I move on having already paid for it.
Prior to any work being done the flow rate was always the same since the problem has occured. I measured this at the weekend and it is 3.2l per minute. It remains at this whether the water is hot or cold.
Since the parts have been changed today the flow rate is still the same however when the hot tap is first turned on the flow is very high for a couple of seconds before returning to the 3.2l per minute.
Yes the filter was checked and is clear, stated in a previous post.
There was some scale in the top of the flow control valve when it was taken off.
The Tech guy is someone with about 25 years experience the engineer said but the main thing was he isn't time pressured and gets much longer to carry out his appointments.
I may get the words mixed up but I mean the same thing. Sorry I am not an expert on boilers and water heating. I am grateful for the continued help and I have spoken to Mike and will get him out once nPower say no more but I hope you can understand I want to get them to spend as much effort on it before I move on having already paid for it.
Prior to any work being done the flow rate was always the same since the problem has occured. I measured this at the weekend and it is 3.2l per minute. It remains at this whether the water is hot or cold.
Since the parts have been changed today the flow rate is still the same however when the hot tap is first turned on the flow is very high for a couple of seconds before returning to the 3.2l per minute.
Yes the filter was checked and is clear, stated in a previous post.
There was some scale in the top of the flow control valve when it was taken off.
The Tech guy is someone with about 25 years experience the engineer said but the main thing was he isn't time pressured and gets much longer to carry out his appointments.
Well if the inlet filter and the wax flow device are both OK then it might be the hot water coil lime scaled up.
That is rare on the Puma because the water coil is inside the heating water.
But it could occur is you have ever had a dripping hot tap.
Easily cleaned though by those who like messy work!
I am glad that Mike has provisionally agreed to attend. Nice fellow.
Tony
That is rare on the Puma because the water coil is inside the heating water.
But it could occur is you have ever had a dripping hot tap.
Easily cleaned though by those who like messy work!
I am glad that Mike has provisionally agreed to attend. Nice fellow.
Tony
Has anyone taken the cold feed off the boiler and ran it to see if the flow drops ? it can be a problem when you have several people look at a boiler as its assumed the basics have been checked by the people before you.
Interesting - the hot tap in our bathroom doesn't drip if it is turned off properly however our 3 year old does have a habit of not turning it off properly sometimes which means it can drip. What sort of length of job would this be - I know how much Mike charges so if it was this and cleaning out the heat exchanger as well I can work out if this is an investment worth making.
No I don't think is has been, maybe something I could do myself! The engineer today did indicate it could be a pipe blockage somewhere.
Inlet filter has been checked and is fine!
He's just as clueless as the rest of them though, I mean to not keep bog standard fibre washers in your toolkit
As a result of turning off the water several times and draining down the DHW boiler circuit there's a load of trapped air somewhere in the pipework...that's why the flowrate initially appears higher when you first open a tap and why the boiler flowswitch clicks even when operating the cold taps.
I have no confidence that the basic checks have been done correctly, having looked after 30 or 40 Pumas in hard London water none of them have shown any signs of heat exchanger scaling.
The DHW tubing is the bundle inside the primary water circuit..about 7 meters of 10mm tube AFAIR. If necessary it could probably be descaled with a Powerflushing pump.
He's just as clueless as the rest of them though, I mean to not keep bog standard fibre washers in your toolkit
As a result of turning off the water several times and draining down the DHW boiler circuit there's a load of trapped air somewhere in the pipework...that's why the flowrate initially appears higher when you first open a tap and why the boiler flowswitch clicks even when operating the cold taps.
I have no confidence that the basic checks have been done correctly, having looked after 30 or 40 Pumas in hard London water none of them have shown any signs of heat exchanger scaling.
The DHW tubing is the bundle inside the primary water circuit..about 7 meters of 10mm tube AFAIR. If necessary it could probably be descaled with a Powerflushing pump.
Thanks gas guru
I don't think it is a scale issue either but there was a piece of scale in the end of the wax valve so it has to be considered.
Is there an easy way to get rid of the trapped air, and is this now my only issue?
It wasn't the tech guy who was here today it was a standard engineer and he did have fibre washers but had to search for them! To be fair this one has at least been helpful and new more than the last who was basically straight out of college.
I saw the cold water inlet filter so know that was checked.
I know they have replaced 4 parts.
Thermostats on both the central heating and DHW.
Flow switch and wax flow device.
I expect a call tomorrow about the tech guy coming out but I don't hold much hope. Scale is not covered under the agreement anyway.
What should I say to them tomorrow, any thoughts on other issues, I feel it might be time to have Mike out I will give him a after nPower phone to see what his thoughts are!
It's the responsibilty of the repair eng to bleed out the air..that means running all outlets. Occasionally there may still be trapped air and you have to delve behind washing machines etc. to check for unused outlets or air vents on old dead leg lenghts of pipe (although these should exist if water regs are complied with. Sometimes you find old pipework in airing cupboards and roofs still connected but trapping air.
As Tony said there's a pipe running from the boiler backplane to the front of the diverter...it can be disconnected from the diverter end and swiveled down...the flowrate into the boiler can then be checked at this point.
Whilst that pipe is off the front of the diverter can be checked but I've no reason to suspect any blockage in there.
1/2 fibre washers will be required...if the eng doesn't have them he clearly doesn't work on many boilers.
As Tony said there's a pipe running from the boiler backplane to the front of the diverter...it can be disconnected from the diverter end and swiveled down...the flowrate into the boiler can then be checked at this point.
Whilst that pipe is off the front of the diverter can be checked but I've no reason to suspect any blockage in there.
1/2 fibre washers will be required...if the eng doesn't have them he clearly doesn't work on many boilers.
That should be interesting as there are actually only 3 hot water taps and a shower in our house but there are also 2 dead ends. One to the washing machine which is no longer needed due to cold fill only and one which runs upstairs into a bedroom which in the past had a sink in it. We have no other water upstairs as we only have a downstairs bathroom.
When they call me today I will say they need to come and sort out the air in the system anyway.
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