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HETAS Engineers a bunch of lying so and so's....

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mbga9pgf

from United Kingdom

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Location: Gloucestershire,
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:23 pm Reply with quote

just finally got my stainless flue installed, after deciding to DIY it after being lied to on 4 seperate occasions by 4 seperate HETAS engineers. Net result of untruths being said HETAS engineers talking themselves out of a days work.

Engineers 1,2,3 all insisted that a lined flue was the only way to meet current building regs, which, I knew to be a complete untruth. At this point, I was only planning on having the register plate replaced, to which, they said "Naah mate, cant do it, its not legal, needs lining" (sure it does when I found out the cost of installation). This is on a flue that had been pressure checked by my sweep and was completely fine, with good draw and no leaks. Just for sh*ts and giggles, I decided to see how much these cowboys wanted for what was effectively 3 hours labour and about 550 in parts. Cheapest quote 1000, worst 1300, which included all prices for parts mysteriously costing TWICE what I could get them online. I was willing to pay to get this done, up to 200 for labour and say 10% on online parts for the hassle of order.

So, instead, rather than being ripped off for parts, I went and ordered the lot online, from reputable dealers and had asked and was supplied with all paperwork of manufacturers etc for the HETAS registration. I elected for the thickest grade 904/904 liner as I was willing to pay to get the best once the price wasnt double what it should have been.

I then went and tried to find a HETAS engineer willing to fit the flue. Could I find one? Could I b*ggery. "sorry, we dont fit anyone other than our own flues"; "cant sign off a flue unless we have supplied it" at least one told the truth "All the margin is in the supplied flue so we dont fit customer supplied". So, what about the margin for the 400 in labour they wanted for a 3 hour job? Also, all of a sudden, a flue lining job wasnt necessary, they could do it with just a register plate if the unlined flue had been checked for leaks etc. One cheeky so and so told me on the phone (I have it recorded for posterity) that installed liners need removal every 5 years for inspection from the outside! Now, I had studied the regs pretty thouroughly, and it seemed as if these chaps were making it up as they went along. Which, I am sure they were.

Long story short, I have employed numerous trades, all of them more skilled than what it takes to line a flue. Some have been pricey, but deservadly so (sparks, corgi etc). None have cost 400 for 3 hours labour for 2 tradesmen. And, plasterers chippies and carpenters have displayed ten times the skill of a job that I figured out in 10 minutes.

The installation is fully within the regs and due to be signed off. Why do these HETAS chancers think they can get away with ripping people off like this? Is it because they as HETAS, are teh only ones other than BC who can sign it off? Some of the down outright lies came across a little like pressured marketing also, which a lot of people would fall for. Surely as registered members of a professional body, this sort of behaviour should be discouraged? The thing is, it wasnt one HETAS engineer, it was every bloody one I got in touch with!

Next flue (insulated double skinned) will be a DIY job too!
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onlyfitidealboilers

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:45 pm Reply with quote

icon_lol.gif YOUR WRONG.
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GasGal

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:08 pm Reply with quote

Guess you don't want to talk to me I'm a HETAS engineer too icon_razz.gif
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GasGal

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:18 pm Reply with quote

just out of interest why did u fit the liner if the chimney is sound?
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Richard C

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:20 pm Reply with quote

Every trade you care to mention will have its cowboys & con merchants & without naming them, some are much more prolific than others. You seem to have had a run of bad luck with your choice of HETAS installers, where did you get them from as itís certainly not my experience!
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mbga9pgf

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:50 pm Reply with quote

Richard C wrote:
Every trade you care to mention will have its cowboys & con merchants & without naming them, some are much more prolific than others. You seem to have had a run of bad luck with your choice of HETAS installers, where did you get them from as itís certainly not my experience!


Off the HETAS website via an internet search!

Why did I fit a flue lining? Unfortunately, a lot of @rse talked by HETAS qualified engineers regarding the "necessity" of flue lining means that upon sale of a house, people seeing a simple unlined flue with a register plate as a means to try and screw cash off the purchase price, especially surveyors. Its not so much the well meaning safety concerns that got me, it was the refusal to install a simple register plate as the customer initially required that got me! As the only trade body other than building control that can deal with solid fuel installations, it didnt leave me many options with regards installation of the plate, hence why I then went down the liner route, to then be told "We wont install a customer installed flue".

So, rather than face the grief in the future, I lined it to save the hassle. I am sure you CAN find decent, honest installers, I still dont see how these installations for 1 day's work cost double the materials cost, especially when you see the reasonable prices for quality liners available via the internet. Regular quotes on Moneysaving expert seem to haver around the 1200 mark, which, after accounting for 300 labour, is still around 300-400 too pricey.

How much would you charge for half a days work and a customer supplied flue installation?

Would you install a customer supplied flue and if not why not?

Bearing in mind HETAS are the only people it seems able to do solid fuel installations, dont you agree I wasnt best served by HETAS?
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jiminblack (13 Dec 2013)
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mbga9pgf

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:08 pm Reply with quote

GasGal wrote:
Guess you don't want to talk to me I'm a HETAS engineer too icon_razz.gif


Not at all, just genuinely curious as to whether I was unlucky or wehether 500 labour and being billed at double for materials is a regular quote for an easy 2 hour job!
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Richard C

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:50 pm Reply with quote

mbga9pgf wrote:

Off the HETAS website via an internet search!

OK; I would always advise you steer well clear of installers associated with stove shops & the like & seek out the independents (from the HETAS site) but Iím surprised & disappointed you feel let youíve been let down. As I said, itís not my experience on the finishing work Iíve been involved with but I donít install stoves & am not HETAS.

mbga9pgf wrote:

How much would you charge for half a days work and a customer supplied flue installation?

In my experience, you should be able to get installation of a customer supplied stove, trade supplied flue liner, insulation, register plate, cap, test plate & commission & for around £1k, including parts/materials but excluding building works. In my experience it can be pretty much a full dayís work for one guy & with problems Iíve know it take over 10 hours.

mbga9pgf wrote:

Would you install a customer supplied flue and if not why not?

Youíre joking icon_lol.gif , would I get up on a roof ladder with an 8m SS snake strapped to my my back icon_confused.gif , no chance but I donít do installs, I only do the building/finishing work below. If your going to supply your own stove & hammer down the day rate you got to give them the chance of a bit of commission on the materials, even if it only amounts to the trade discount. After all you wouldnít get it at trade price & itís no different to any other trade.

Donít underestimate the advantages of a quality twin wall & insulated liner installation over an existing clay liner or a rendered brick flue designed for an open fire. They may be quiet sound & safe to use but it will not be as efficient with a stove install due to lower gas temperatures in the top 1/3 of the flue. This will give reduced heat output from the stove & lead to condensation on sulphur deposits which results in what will basically be sulphuric acid. This will eat away at the render holding your flue/chimney together & will eventually destroy a non insulated liner far quicker than an insulated one.
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mbga9pgf

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 pm Reply with quote

Cheers for the feedback, looks like i had a bad run then... the 1200 was purely for the lining, not including stove and stove pipe. icon_eek.gif

We have noticed our draw is blinking awesome now (8m flue) so much so we may have to get a flue damper now! I was drawing all the smoke from my smoke bomb 2 feet away from the flue liner opeining when I tested it.

As for climbing up, I fed from below, (arrow the right way!) and only went up top to trim the excess off the chimney ptot!
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joinerjohn

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:19 pm Reply with quote

I sympathise with you,,, In a similar vein, earlier this year the water pump on my car needed replacing. The garages I phoned all advised a change of cambelt at the same time. The cheapest garage wanted £50 for the water pump and almost £90 for the cambelt + labour to fit them. I priced the parts up from both, motor factors and the internet, and purchased the pump and the cambelt kit (including tensioner) for under £50 for both items. Local garages wouldn't fit customer supplied parts though (even though they were the exact same parts) (I even checked with one garage which manufacturers parts they used and they were exactly the same as I had bought)
Eventually got a mechanic who lives local to fit them in his spare time. He charged me £40 to fit them and even supplied antifreeze himself.
So I can see where us customers are ripped off by all trades.
PS I fit kitchens and do joinery work in my spare time and pride myself on doing a good job for a reasonable price.. No rip off and if called back to a job, will go back. (unlike some people I know) icon_wink.gif icon_wink.gif
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Alarm

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:42 pm Reply with quote

All hail Internet purchases.
You want the stuff at trade then try and tell the tradesman what he can charge.
No wonder our Euro friends are decimating the country.
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ajstoneservices (17 Aug 2012)
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mbga9pgf

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:45 am Reply with quote

Alarm wrote:
All hail Internet purchases.
You want the stuff at trade then try and tell the tradesman what he can charge.
No wonder our Euro friends are decimating the country.


This misses the point. I wont listen to trades whining about lack of work when they are cheating themselves out of it by doubling up the cost of materials. 10% for ordering, handling etc I dont begrudge, 100% increase is downright theft. Local solid fuel engineers lost out on a days labour through no other reason than they seem to have a local monopoly arranged for terms of installation.

And I dare say 200 a day for labour is hardly begrudging for the level of skill required to fit a flue and test it.

If I employ someone and they do a fantastic job, as someone did recently for me, I will tip and tip big. A very handy chap locally could only fit a job in on a saturday, only 2 hours work, and charged 50 quid. We had previously agreed 100 for the job (he was expecting it to take longer than it did), so thats what I paid.
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Alarm

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:55 am Reply with quote

This is just a repeat of another thread almost exactly the same.

Cya, not worth the effort.
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Corgigrouch

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:57 am Reply with quote

mbga9pgf wrote:
10% for ordering, handling etc I dont begrudge, 100% increase is downright theft. .


Well you'd better keep out of your local supermarket then 'cos you'd have a **** coronry if I told you what their mark up was...
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expertgasman

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:20 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Eventually got a mechanic who lives local to fit them in his spare time. He charged me £40 to fit them and even supplied antifreeze himself. icon_wink.gif icon_wink.gif


You and your £40 man are clearly not running a busoiness. You probably don't carry insurance, and have a proper income, so are able to earn beer money on the side. You have no idea of the cost of being self employed, or running a bricks and mortar business.

Carry on doing what ypu are mate, but it makes me sick when you and other folk compare the legit with the illegal. And you ARE illegal if you are not declaring your income, and paying the minimum 27% ish.

As for the OP being happy with a 10% mark up over the intermet rate - get real NO proper business works on 10%. When we supply a product, we become reasponsible for it. I NEVER buy work materials of the 'net. If I was to order materials of the 'net, I (or a representative) have to be somewhere to receive the products, potentially all day. It is easier for me as I have a shop, but deliveries can be anytime from 8 am. Also, if they get lost or damaged, it may be a nightmare resolving. It is always 7 days before they accept it is lost, which is wonderful of you need it for a job immediately.
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Corgigrouch (8 Nov 2011)
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