council permission issue

Joined
17 Oct 2008
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
Hello,

I could have a problem with my local council (i live in the south).

A couple of weeks ago I had some water coming through my loft so I
got two roofers to have a look at it and they both agreed that my chimney had to be lowered below roof level as it was letting water in and was dangerous.

I rang the council planning helpline and they could not provide an answer as to whether i needed permission to do this work so they said they would get back to me which they did not.

In the mean time I got the work done as i feared for the safety of my family and of my neighbours in addition to the damage that the water was doing.

Yesterday i get a call from the council saying that recently for this sort of work they want a planning appl because it is now classed as "partial demolition". They tell me a solicitor gave them this advice event though till recently it was not a problem and they told people they could go ahead. Only in the last few months they have started to require perimission.
I am a little bit worried in case someone reports this to them.
My point is that i made the thing safe and i was worried about my property and people around it. I waited what i felt was sufficient time for them to get back to me and they failed to do so in good time.

I'd like your opinions on this and do you think they can make me build the thing back up?

thanks
 
Sponsored Links
The planner is wrong

Unless in a conservation area, a listed building or if you have special planning conditions placed on the property or local area, then demolition of chimneys (or even whole extensions) is either exempt from planning permission or is permitted development

Its not "partial demolition"

In any case, the need for emergency work on safety grounds over-rides planning consent.

I would not worry about it. Even if permision was required, in the scheme of things, this is nothing the planners would worry about, unless its some grandiose Tudor monstrosity of national importance.
 
Thats not how i understand it - i agree with the planner. Permitted development rights changed on 1st of October 2008 and alterations to any house anywhere in England are not included in your permitted development rights if it consists or includes the installaton, ALTERATION or replacement of a chimney, flue or SVP. I would say demolition of a chimney would be classed as an alteration and therefore you DO need planning permission.

Its not a major issue but if they do decide to check up on this and take it further you will have to either put the chimney back as it was or submit an application to remove it otherwise they could take enforcement action on you.

If you haven't given them your address you can wait to see if anything comes of it and maybe nothing more will ever be said?
 
unfortunately i gave them my address.
are they likely to drive around to check even if mine was a general query?
 
Sponsored Links
Thats not how i understand it - i agree with the planner. Permitted development rights changed on 1st of October 2008 and alterations to any house anywhere in England are not included in your permitted development rights if it consists or includes the installaton, ALTERATION or replacement of a chimney, flue or SVP. I would say demolition of a chimney would be classed as an alteration and therefore you DO need planning permission.

Its not a major issue but if they do decide to check up on this and take it further you will have to either put the chimney back as it was or submit an application to remove it otherwise they could take enforcement action on you.

If you haven't given them your address you can wait to see if anything comes of it and maybe nothing more will ever be said?

i think you better re-read the guide on planning then. this is a straight lift from the governments planning guide website and it clearly IS a permitted development

"Under new regulations that came into effect from 1 October 2008, fitting, altering or replacing an external flue, chimney, or soil and vent pipe is normally considred to be permitted development, not requiring planning consent, if the conditions outlined below are met:

Flues are allowed if less than one metre above the highest part of the roof.
If the building is listed or in a designated area even if you enjoy permitted development rights it is advisable to check with your local planning authority before a flue is fitted.
In a designated area the flue should not be fitted on the principal or side elevation that fronts a highway."
 
There is nothing in Class G of the GPDO 2008 to say that this is not PD

Also, "alteration" is not, AIUI, "removal" - it is alteration in the normal sense of the work

So I can't see where the PD rights in respect of chimneys has changed
 
Thats not how i understand it - i agree with the planner. Permitted development rights changed on 1st of October 2008 and alterations to any house anywhere in England are not included in your permitted development rights if it consists or includes the installaton, ALTERATION or replacement of a chimney, flue or SVP. I would say demolition of a chimney would be classed as an alteration and therefore you DO need planning permission.

Its not a major issue but if they do decide to check up on this and take it further you will have to either put the chimney back as it was or submit an application to remove it otherwise they could take enforcement action on you.

If you haven't given them your address you can wait to see if anything comes of it and maybe nothing more will ever be said?

i think you better re-read the guide on planning then. this is a straight lift from the governments planning guide website and it clearly IS a permitted development

"Under new regulations that came into effect from 1 October 2008, fitting, altering or replacing an external flue, chimney, or soil and vent pipe is normally considred to be permitted development, not requiring planning consent, if the conditions outlined below are met:

Flues are allowed if less than one metre above the highest part of the roof.
If the building is listed or in a designated area even if you enjoy permitted development rights it is advisable to check with your local planning authority before a flue is fitted.
In a designated area the flue should not be fitted on the principal or side elevation that fronts a highway."

hi thermo,

do you have a link to the regulation you've quoted?

thanks
 
PP aside, if this was an emergency there is no requirement to wait until PP has been given to remove a dangerous chimney (if it was dangerous).
 
well i nearly fell off my chair when i was told i neede PP.
They told me they had sought advice from a planning solicitor somewhere else who had been involved in a legal case related to a chimney.
I do not think it was very professional to quote a legal precedent without
quoting the WHOLE case circumstances. It may have been a listed building so of course they would have needed PP.

It is a grey area, I guess it depends if demolishing a chimney breast is an alteration or partial demolition or maybe it can be both?

The rule as it is leaves it too much to interpretation imho.
In my case it the problem was causing considerable danger and damage to my property.
 
Unless you live in a conservation area or one of the other designated special cases I would just forget about it.

If you live in a normal hosue in a normal street there are no restrictions on demolition or partial demolition and the local authority will not drive round to have a look. And even if they do just stick with the dangerous argument.

So you can stop worrying.
 
Sorry guys - it appears i had friday afternoon-itis ie. engaging fingers before brain!!

I still think tho that it is open to interpretation whether deomolition of a chimney would be classed as an alteration or not and so IF the chimney was more than 1m above the highest part of the roof (usually the ridge) then you MAY need planning permission to remove it. The link on the planning portal does say 'is NORMALLY considered to be PD' and leaves this statement a little vague - for one thing it talks about flues, chimneys and SVPs in the opening statement but only flues in the conditions below - i find the planning portal a little unhelpful in many ways!!

I find it odd that the planning authority would state they've taken legal advice if they weren't sure they were correct?? It could be that a planning authority somewhere has recently taken someone to court for removing a chimney, and won, and this has set a legal precident.

If it was me i'd have taken the chimney down as it was dangerous (as you have done) and just wait to see if they do anything about it (as jeds says above). At worst they'll ask you to submit an application and if they don't say anything - end of story.[/b]
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top