Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 2144 Location: Zaire Thanked: 38 times
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:32 pm Post Subject:
The conspiracy theory that I like is the one that says the pentagon was hit by a missile. Years ago I read about it and there was some very convincing "evidence". But what amazed me most was the total ommision or discussion of "if it was a missile what had happened to the plane and the passengers?"
Joined: 21 Oct 2004 Posts: 8452 Location: Sussex, United Kingdom Thanked: 31 times
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:53 pm Post Subject:
i watched a discovery program last night that went through the theories. many of those that were interviewed couldn't give more than fleeting reasons to support their theories and even less so when shown the scientific evidence disproving the theories
__________________ have grace to accept what cant be changed, strength to change what can, wisdom to see the difference
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 4848 Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom Thanked: 7 times
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:18 am Post Subject:
The ability of columns to sustain a loading depends on their lateral restraint. The application of a gradually increasing load will eventually result in the column bowing (try it with a ruler on end). As it bows, the tensile and compressive forces increase and, eventually, the column fails.
The WTC external columns were restrained by floor trusses in one direction and perimeter beams in the other. The trusses - very lightweight structures with thin individual members - buckled from the heat from the aircraft fires. Eventually the joints failed, the trusses dropped onto the floor below, the column unrestrained heights became far greater and their load-bearing capability reduced. The great weight of the numerous floors above caused the lower unrestrained sections of column to buckle and fail and the increased load on the floors below, both from static and dynamic loads, caused these to fail in turn and progressive collapse to take place. It then gained an unstoppable momentum.
The splay on the lower sections of columns is nothing more than a failure plane from the progressive collapse. Demolition works make use of the knowledge of failure planes, that's why they would be the same.
With regard to WTC7, it started to collapse in the middle. If you look at the floor plans, there was a large span transfer structure here, so that is the obvious place where the steel will first buckle and yield from heat and, insodoing, pull the perimeters in.
Bear in mind that these buildings were designed in the 1960s to differing standards and they did not cater for progressive collapse. We only design for that now - and only for greater than five storeys - as a result of the Ronan Point disaster in 1972. But we still have thousands of high rise buildings where a similar collapse to the WTC could quite easily take place.
The WTC were designed for plane impacts. But the planes then were much smaller than they are now. And, no one considered the reality of avgas fires and the force of an explosion removing the somewhat poor fire protection to the structure. They would and do now, of course, plus technology moves on and materials and methods are available now that were not back then.
Finally, steel does not need to "catch fire" to fail. The temperature at which steel begins to yield and lose its elasticity is quite low. Even a domestic level fire can result in distortion to steels, so a fully-laden plane impacting it at 400mph would not have too much trouble there.
It's a testament to the design that the things managed to stand at all, for any length of time.
The conspiracy theories can be shot down in flames - ooh, that was not perhaps the best metaphor to use - by anyone with a modicum of structural training and a less cynical mindset from that which says that every bad thing in the world is ultimately due to American oppression.
Finally, steel does not need to "catch fire" to fail. The temperature at which steel begins to yield and lose its elasticity is quite low. Even a domestic level fire can result in distortion to steels, so a fully-laden plane impacting it at 400mph would not have too much trouble there.
You don't even need to be a structural engineer to know this! Has a conspiracist never looked at one of their tools and thought "Heat treated? I wonder what heat treatment is!".
Take a steel pin or needle and try bending it to see how flexible it is. Then hold it in some barbecue tongues and heat in a gas flame for a minute or two. A hob will do. Now, see how flexible the pin has become (press it against something, don't use your fingers!).
Scale that up to thousands of tonnes of skyscraper, it's the same effect.
In my experience, conspiracists fall into two categories:
1) Open-minded and methodical people who have noticed a gap in the information and want to fill that gap, whether it proves or disproves the commonly-held theory. These are the people who ask questions and want an answer.
2) People who read a few dodgy paragraphs on the internet and now think that THEY know the truth, THEY have the inside track on the situation, it makes them feel special and smart. They have no new thoughts, only what they have been told to think by the other "truthers".
The people in category 1 will ask questions until they are satisfied a singular logical conclusion has been reached.
The people in category 2 are the fervent foamy-mouthed people who cause those category 1 shying away from asking questions so they don't get tarred with the same brush.
The above is all true, I read it on an internet forum and the poster told me he was a member of the illuminati.
Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 7929 Location: United Kingdom Thanked: 59 times
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:41 am Post Subject:
What an unbelievable idea that a government would do this to their own people just to further there own ends . Na it could never happen no one would be daft enough to think that up
Do a search on operation northwood .
Also how did several people know to carry out very strange pattern of selling the airlines involved shares the day before and make tens of millions
Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 2732 Location: Manchester, United Kingdom Thanked: 49 times
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:58 am Post Subject:
The death and destruction caused was unforgivable and totally unacceptable. And yet, the audacity of the act has a certain degree of cleverness about it, but "respect" isn't really the word I'm looking for.
__________________ A rolling stone gathers no moss.
It has also been proven that if you drop a brick from the top of the wtc it would take 11sec to hit the ground,the same time it took for the tallest building in the world at one time to completely fall to the ground with no resistance whatsoever.
When you look at the mechanics of the fall, above the point of weakness in one tower was about 30 storeys. Think about the masses involved here. Thousands of tonnes. When the point of weakness buckled (clearly visible on tapes of the day), these thousands of tonnes of steel and concrete were free to collapse down on the rest of the structure. Drop a thousand tonnes onto any structure and it will fall to the ground pretty swiftly!
It is also very visible in the videos that the bottom of the towers remained static whilst the rest of the the structure came down on it. Of course, a weakness in the basement would have caused the bottom of the towers to cave in when the top started to fall. It didn't.
A brick weighs about a kilo. Those towers weighed a little bit more.
there is also testamonies of nyc fire fighters and audio tapes of explosions in the basement (the plane never hit there) and on other levels.
OK, do something for me. Ask someone in your house to tap hard on the radiator pipes downstairs with something metallic (a coin would suffice). Go upstairs and listen. You may also be able to hear the boiler working in your bedrooms etc.
My point is, metal conducts sound (as well as heat) very well. The perimeter beams were steel construction. So any explosions up on the 90+th floor will be audible throughout the building.
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1879 Location: Merseyside, United Kingdom Thanked: 12 times
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:38 am Post Subject:
Quote:
there is also testamonies of nyc fire fighters and audio tapes of explosions in the basement (the plane never hit there) and on other levels.
The firefighters in the basement stated (with tears in their eyes) that the loud crashing noises in the background were the sound of people's bodies hitting the ground and exploding with the impact.
As one of them said, each crash represented another life gone.
Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 3612 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom Thanked: 24 times
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:09 pm Post Subject:
We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy’s side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace.
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