IP signalling

Steve · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:46 pm Post Subject: IP signalling

Is this as reliable as BT redcare?

Company I work for is rolling out IP signalling for its alarm systems. They have an extensive computer network via broadband lines, in around 4000 branches across the UK, and they are taking advantage of this.

Some of the alarm systems have a dedicated phone line, so this has the potential to save £1000's in line rental alone.

They also claim to be able to sort problems from the monitoring centre, and "force set" alarms rather than sending an engineer at closing time.

This is all well and good, but occasionally, our broadband line does need resetting (about monthly the connection goes "stale"). The first we usually know of this is when a customers debit card wont authorise, about half an hour after opening. All it needs is us to reboot the router, but if it fails overnight and there is an alarm, what happens? The alarm cant signal out.

Im also lead to believe if a redcare line is cut, it automatically signals a tamper at the ARC. What about an IP line?

Atilla · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:31 pm Post Subject:

I can think of a dozen reasons not to use IP signalling, however someone in your organisation has assesed it as suitable.

Money is usually the primary consideration.

Steve · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:37 pm Post Subject:

Atilla wrote:

I can think of a dozen reasons not to use IP signalling

Oh? Such as?

RF Lighting · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:49 pm Post Subject:

Do your alarms not have GSM signalling as a back up to the redcare line anyway?

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downlights

bernardgreen · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:47 am Post Subject:

Atilla wrote:

I can think of a dozen reasons not to use IP signalling, however someone in your organisation has assesed it as suitable.

They almost certainly assessed a working IP link up as being able to provide the functions required. Which it can do very easily and at very low cost.

They probably gave very little if any thought to the other things relating to the use of an IP link. Most of which are disadvantages many of which , (but not all) can be overcome at extra cost and complexity.

Atilla · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:03 am Post Subject:

bernardgreen wrote:

Atilla wrote:

I can think of a dozen reasons not to use IP signalling, however someone in your organisation has assesed it as suitable.

They almost certainly assessed a working IP link up as being able to provide the functions required. Which it can do very easily and at very low cost.

They probably gave very little if any thought to the other things relating to the use of an IP link. Most of which are disadvantages many of which , (but not all) can be overcome at extra cost and complexity.

exactly - and with respect to Steve .............I`m not going to tell him what they are now am I.

takes security out of the hands of approved contractors and into the land of nerds and geeks - give me strength.

Barsteward · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:19 am Post Subject:

Atilla wrote:

takes security out of the hands of approved contractors and into the land of nerds and geeks - give me strength.

Whose first response is "you're not putting that on MY network".
And in the unlikely event that they do co-operate, it goes to the bottom of the priority list.

simonpolly · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:59 am Post Subject:

How does IP signalling work ?

bernardgreen · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:53 am Post Subject:

simonpolly wrote:

How does IP signalling work ?

One system I have seen "operating" ( for want of a better word ) was a PC at each location that was "on the internet" and was uploading and downloading short files from a central location operating as a ordinary public access web page. The only "security" was that the URL of the website was not made public.

But the IT geek with tunnel vision, blinkers and no existance in the real world assured the company it would work........

There are better systems.

Europlex · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:19 pm Post Subject:

bernardgreen wrote:

simonpolly wrote:

How does IP signalling work ?

One system I have seen "operating" ( for want of a better word ) was a PC at each location that was "on the internet" and was uploading and downloading short files from a central location operating as a ordinary public access web page. The only "security" was that the URL of the website was not made public.

But the IT geek with tunnel vision, blinkers and no existance in the real world assured the company it would work........

There are better systems.

Well I suppose that is the difference between an amateur system and a professional one.

Google > Chiron

simonpolly · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:41 pm Post Subject:

So if the computer at the remote site that is linked to a alarm loses its internet connection or complete loss of phone line,how long before it alarms ?,i`m only interested because i sometimes install redcare onto peoples phone lines and know that it is constantly monitored

Europlex · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:53 pm Post Subject:

Google > Chiron

Did you?

If you did, did you read it?

It's all there.

National retailers with 100s of stores can't all be wrong.

bernardgreen · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:55 pm Post Subject:

Europlex wrote:

bernardgreen wrote:

simonpolly wrote:

How does IP signalling work ?

But the IT geek with tunnel vision, blinkers and no existance in the real world assured the company it would work........

Well I suppose that is the difference between an amateur system and a professional one.

This was a "professional" system designed and set up by IT professionals.

Atilla · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:07 pm Post Subject:

Europlex wrote:

National retailers with 100s of stores can't all be wrong.

they can and often are.

Barsteward · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:42 pm Post Subject:

bernardgreen wrote:

This was a "professional" system designed and set up by IT professionals.

Not unknown, but rare as rocking horse s**t to find someone in IT who has the first inkling of an idea regarding Security systems.