Which consumer unit to buy?

[Taylortwocities]

The electrician should carry out a Periodic Inspection and produce a report on the condition of the installation. The inspection (and any necessary remedial works) must be done before the consumer unit is changed.

There is no such thing as a "Landlord Electrical Test". Not like the (required) ones for gas in rented properties.

Note that there is no statutory obligation on landlords or agents to have professional checks carried out on the electrical system or appliances. However, under Common Law and various statutory regulations: The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, The Housing Act 2004, The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994, and the Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994, both of which come under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, there is an obligation to ensure that all electrical equipment is safe.

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TTC

When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on. - F.D.R.

[dizz]

BAS - I just bought a Glow Worm combi for much cheaper than local - because I can use the internet - why would I want to pay the local gas man to buy the Glow-wrom from the local depot?

If I did want the tradesperson to supply materials, I would tell them that they cam quote on it, but they may or may not end up supplying it.

Scenario 1 - labour £50, materials £150
Scenario 2 - labour £150, materials £50

Who do I choose - The first guy - I pay him £50 and go on the internet and get the materials for £50. The internet has changed everything. I ended up paying the gas man £300 to install the boiler rather than the £1900 quoted by another firm to install and buy the boiler. Was it difficult - at first, but when you realise that all you need is a flue, boiler, thermostat and loop to fill the thing up - it's quite easy. before you knwo that, you will get asked how many rooms, what boiler rating, blah blah blah ... I may have compromised the solution by not getting a Vaikllant - but ffs a boiler is a boiler and it heats up water and it heats up radiators.

[dizz]

John - thanks for the toolsation link - looks even cheaper than screwfix.

[dizz]

John - Toolsation has this :

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/Circuit+Protection/17th+Edition+Dual+RCD+Consumer+Unit+12+Way+5+5+2/d190/sd2615/p12171

Do you recommend the RCBO route also?

If so, is there a ny reason people seem to be favouring this?

[flameport]

If you want cheap, there's also rubbish like this: http://consumer-unit.com/consumerunits.aspx

I wouldn't buy it or install it.

Pursuing the cheapest possible price will inevitably result in the worst possible items installed by the least competent people.

[ban-all-sheds]

dizz wrote:

Scenario 1 - labour £50, materials £150 Scenario 2 - labour £150, materials £50

Scenario 1. The guy needs to leave the job with £150 in his wallet and he has chosen to acquire that £150 by charging you £50 for labour and £100 markup on the materials. If you tell him that he will not be getting that markup, why should he still do the job and end up only making 1/3 of what he needs?

Quote:

The internet has changed everything.

It's certainly changed the ease with which people with crazy ideas can make a complete fool of themselves in front of a large audience.

Quote:

a boiler is a boiler and it heats up water and it heats up radiators.

Oh please take that theory over to the plumbing forum and see what they make of it...

Anyway - I wish you, with your cheapest CU you can find, chosen by someone who doesn't have a ******* clue, and your oh-so-competent electrician who is going to install it for £130, and who will obviously be highly motivated to do a good job, the best of luck.

But I wish more luck to the poor s*ds who end up being your tenants - they are the ones who are really going to need it.

[ban-all-sheds]

flameport wrote:

Pursuing the cheapest possible price will inevitably result in the worst possible items installed by the least competent people.

I think he's already found the latter, but is still hoping to do worse with the former.

[1john]

dizz wrote:

John - Toolsation has this : http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/Circuit+Protection/17th+Edition+Dual+RCD+Consumer+Unit+12+Way+5+5+2/d190/sd2615/p12171 Do you recommend the RCBO route also? If so, is there a ny reason people seem to be favouring this?

you can use that. rcbo's are better as a fauly on one circuit wont affect another.

[dizz]

Cheers John.

Ok Flameport - I will use the wylex from screwfix then or RCBO it - have to choose tomorrow.

BAS - re: a boiler is a boiler - that's not quite true - but you ask 100 gas men which boiler is best and you think you'd get one answer do you - don't make me laugh. There is absouletly nothing wrong with the Glow Worm I bought - expect the person selling it sells loads on the internet - would it have been better to buy one locally from Glow Worm?

[Goldberg]

dizz wrote:

I thought it simpler and easier for me to compare if I said I'd get the part

Option 1: Engage the contractor, and pay him.
Option 2: Engage the contractor, delay him while you use an Internet forum to choose the CU, buy it, get it wrong, take it back, find a fault, take it back again, re-arrange the contractor's visit and pay him extra for the trouble.

So which option is "simpler and easier"?

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He says he will charge me £50 to switch the unit and £80 for the test - he can self certify.

Get someone else - nobody could possibly make a good and safe job of changing over a CU and testing for £130.

Quote:

Is this one OK http://www.screwfix.com/prods/80908/Electrical-Supplies/Consumer-Units/Wylex-Consumer-Units/WYLEX-10-Way-Fully-Insulated-Dual-RCD-Consumer-Unit

Do you mean good quality, or do you mean "simple and easy"?

Gees wrote:

hardware is a fixed price.. no matter who pays for it.

That's just something that bitter and twisted people say when they attempt to justify lack of trust in yet another contractor that they're about to fall out with.

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Labour SHOULD be charged per hour, with accountability.

You can believe that you know how things "should" be, but that's not the same as how things are.

If you want to engage the services of a professional electrician, then you trade on his terms, not yours. If you don't want to, then don't do it - instead, pay the LABC the fee for submitting a building notice, pay to go on a course, spend time learning how to do it yourself, buy the right tools and test equipment, and then do the job.

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If not we are in the realms of the "cowboy " culture.

The reality is that you're in the realms of the cowboy customer.

[Goldberg]

dizz wrote:

when you realise that all you need is a flue, boiler, thermostat and loop to fill the thing up

The last time I looked, my gas boiler needed a gas supply, and an electrical supply, and provided electrical outputs.

Quote:

it's quite easy.

I also find it easy, but a surprising number of people underestimate the difficulty of given the right amount of weight to all of the factors that need to be considered. I actually think that you're one of those people.

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before you knwo that, you will get asked how many rooms, what boiler rating, blah blah blah

Why do you find it so tedious that people ask for the information needed to satisfy the legal requirements set out in The Building Regulations?

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ffs a boiler is a boiler and it heats up water and it heats up radiators.

That much is true, but a badly chosen boiler, or a badly installed boiler, will be unreliable, expensive to run, expensive to maintain, and below the standards set for energy efficiency. Why would you not entrust the decisions that need knowledge to the people who have that knowledge?

[electronicsuk]

I'm not going to go down the route of debating the ins and outs of supplying the parts yourself, as I and others have already covered all and more than needs to be said. Regardless of what anyone here says to the contrary, you have your mind set on supplying the parts, so we might as well at least try and make sure you don't waste your money.

The CU linked to at toolstation is a cheap brand, and even more oversized than the 5+5 Wylex you linked to at toolstation earlier. Your extra £20 would be far better spent on the Wylex. Regardless of your supply type and earthing arrangements, an insulated dual RCD unit should have you covered.

I'm still more worried by the prices you've been given by your spark, who, presumably, was the cheapest of X amount of quotes you received. I would be very surprised if he did the job properly and provided you with all the necessary paperwork, or completed a full PIR before changing the CU, or bothers to check and almost inevitably upgrade the main bonding. Mind you, as you only have a single lighting circuit, as least he shouldn't have any problems with borrowed neutrals

__________________
Matthew

"I told you, I only wrote that poem to test my printer!"

[chapeau]

Quote:

If you want to engage the services of a professional electrician, then you trade on his terms, not yours

Well that's not strictly true, the deal is struck when both sides agree terms. Business must be good to have that attitude.

[dizz]

thanks electronics UK. I have checked - he is on the Patp P Register - NAPIT - Scope - Full - All domestic electrical work.

Re : quote - he was the cheapest - but that wasn't as important as how he came across. I told everyone I was supplying the part - he freely told me about the latest regs regarding RCD which i knew already and so i thought "i'd get on with him". One other, i remember, said "oh god - are you aware of the Latest 17th Ediition regulations as if i'd have to sell the wife and kids to raise the money to understand it".

I can't do any more than checking he is registered for the work I want him to do?

P.S. I had another quote for £65 for the PIR and £85 for the CU change.

[LiamPope]

Hi there,

I'm no pro, but some advice for what it's worth...

Don't buy the cheapest tat you can find. From what I've seen there are many 'brands' that look like that one you linked to at Toolstation - exactly like it. That's cos it's generic, anonymous chinese tat with the latest Mr-I-wanna-make-a-fast-buck-importing-rubbish-from-china's sticker stuck on it. Avoid that stuff like the plague, as I'm sure you would in purchasing decisions in other spheres. It's likely to be unreliable (with all that unreliability of life-saving devices implies), awkward to install (not helping your hopes of 'getting on with' your electrician), and your chances of finding compatible spares in the future may dissappear when the 'brand' does - in about 6 months time . Stick with the well known trusted brands like MK, Hager, Wylex etc.

RCBOs are RCD and MCB in one. So you have in your consumer unit just the main switch and an RCBO for each circuit, rather than main switch, 2RCDs and MCBs shared between the two RCDs. All RCBOs is prefered because you have an individual RCD for each circuit so that if one circuit trips it doesn't take out any others potentially plunging you into darkness/defrosting your freezer etc etc. For an average full-sized house with, say, 10 circuits the all RCBO option is expensive so the dual RCD board with MCBs is the popular compromise. For you, with only three (or four with smoke alarm) circuits the all RCBO option will not be significantly more expensive than dual RCDs so should be considered.

Have a look at TLC - in my experience a great online supplier with much better prices than screwfix for decent gear. For an all RCBO option you might consider, for example the 8-way 100A main switch Hager unit here (the smaller 4 or 6-way ones would probably do, but with 63A main switches you'd ideally want to check your main service fuse is no bigger than 60A). Then RCBOs as appropriate - click one of the consumer units then scroll down for the RCBOs (and blanks for unused ways). With regards ratings replace your existing like for like - eg: 6A for lighting circuit, 32A for ring, whatever you need for your cooker, 6A if you're going to add smoke alarm circuit. This will be much neater than a huge dual RCD board full of empty space and a bucket of unused MCBs, and also optimal in terms of functionality, all for almost no extra cost.

Finally, as mentioned the main bonding (earth cables from incoming water and gas supplies to main earth terminal) needs to be up to spec - whether it is or not should be determined in the periodic inspection. As we're talking flats here I'm in no position to advise - I'm not sure if main bonding needs to be carried out for each flat or just at the main incoming service location for the building. Your spark should know.

Hope that helps, though I do share the sentiments of some others - if you've chosen which electrician to engage, and furthermore you're even impressed with his attitude, why are you not asking him for advice on what to supply (even if you still insist on buying it yourself)? He is afterall the one going to fit it, may have his own preferences, and has of course already seen your existing installation.

Liam