Help - Phones have stopped ringing!

redconker · 31 Aug 2010

Hi there,

Could somebody please help me, I have a BT system and without any change, the system has stopped ringing. If I call the system from my mobile and pickup the phone, a connection is made, but the system doesn't ring.

This was working okay on Friday and then stopped. I didn't touch it - honest!

I don't have a master socket, only a rectangle old connection box in the hall where lines go back inside walls to go to extensions.

BT would like to charge me £150 as they say the problem is in my house.[/i]

So far I have tried removing all phones and using a single phone I know works and plugging in - nothing.

I'm guessing I probably have a broken wire somewhere - but where to start? I would appreciate any thoughts you guys have on how I can fix this please?

joe-90 · 31 Aug 2010

If it doesn't work at the point of entry then that's where the fault must lie. Take the bits undone and have a look.

OwainDIYer · 31 Aug 2010

Sounds like your phones rely on a ringing capacitor in the master socket and either the wire on pin 3 has broken somewhere or the capacitor has gone open-circuit.

Easiest fix would probably be to get a ADSL microfilter for each phone - they usually have a ringing capacitor in them

simonpolly · 31 Aug 2010

Does the system click when it should be ringing ?,stand next to the system a dial the number,i know that on some of the older systems after a while the ringing relay fails.

redconker · 31 Aug 2010

OwainDIYer said:
Sounds like your phones rely on a ringing capacitor in the master socket and either the wire on pin 3 has broken somewhere or the capacitor has gone open-circuit.

Easiest fix would probably be to get a ADSL microfilter for each phone - they usually have a ringing capacitor in them

Thanks for the above but I cannot find a master socket in my house. In the loft I have a very small connector where the external wire is connected to the internal wires. So I can't find a capacitor anywhere. All my phones have ADSL filters on them as I also use the line for broadband.

This evening, i have disconnected all extensions and the problem remains. i.e. I isolated upstairs phone sockets and tested and then down. Still can't get the system to ring.

Lectrician · 31 Aug 2010

Can you describe your 'system'? How many extensions? Single line (phone number).

I think there is some misunderstanding in your setup?

redconker · 31 Aug 2010

Yes sure - I have a single line with multiple phone points - bedroom x2, kitchen, lounge landing & hall.

I don't have a master socket. I have a grey two wired wire coming from the street which runs to a connection box. Here it it connected to three "extensions" [?] - one for upstairs, one down and a third for the hall. The connector doesn't contain anything else.

In the down stairs hall, i have a small rectangle box 2" wide by 1" where the downstairs wire connects to further extensions. Again, this is only a connection box.

I have both phone and broadband coming through the single wire.

The fault. When I lift the handset (i have used multiple), there is a dial tone. I am able to make calls and receive them, if I pick the phone up when I dial it with my mobile but none of the handsets ring. I have two base stations connected, each with two handset. including the base station that makes 6 ringers.

All phones are connected using ADSL connectors and I have tried removing everything except an old hardwire phone but still nothing. I have also tried isolating sections of the system to identify wire problems - again nothing.

thanks.

plugwash · 1 Sep 2010

Have you looked in the back of all the sockets? old style master sockets don't look any different to extension sockets from the front.

Having said that personally I think BT are probablly lying to you. ADSL filters contain their own ringing capacitors so a failed capacitor in the master socket shouldn't stop your phones ringing and a failed capacitor in a filter would only stop that one phone ringing.

joe-90 · 1 Sep 2010

I may be wrong but doesn't the 'ringing' wire have about 50 volts on it? Can you check for a voltage with a meter?

simonpolly · 1 Sep 2010

When you say your system do you mean your incoming line goes into a business system first ? or were you just describing the set up you have ?. If you don't have a system you wiring is incorrect as it is star wired,this means it is star wired before the master socket it should go to the master socket then off to the extensions. Star wiring will have a detrimental impact on your adsl speed and from your description your wiring is very dated.

TicklyT · 1 Sep 2010

redconker said:
...... I have tried removing everything except an old hardwire phone but still nothing.....

That piece of information makes it sound like sorting out your phone extension wiring will be a bit of a nightmare. In general, hard-wired and plug-in telephones are considered as incompatible.

Hard-wired telephones had their ringing circuit connected in series. Individual ringers were turned off by shorting out the ringer. The wiring also featured a ringer supression circuit to prevent the ringers responding to dial pulses when a number was dialled. Plug-in telephones have their ringers connected in parallel, and individual ringers are turned off by breaking the connection to the ringer. The ringer supression circuit is now redundant, as dialling is usually done by multi-frequency tones.

With a mixture of two types of wiring, it's anybody's guess where the fault could be.

When you count all the ringers connected to your phone line, a hard-wired phone is usually assessed as equivalent to 3 ringers, even when properly converted for plug-in use. Most lines will only support a maximum of five ringers. Count modems and fax machines too. Even if they don't actually make a noise, they still have a ringing detector to consider.

JOHNBOY42 · 2 Sep 2010

redconker said:
Yes sure - I have a single line with multiple phone points - bedroom x2, kitchen, lounge landing & hall.

I don't have a master socket. I have a grey two wired wire coming from the street which runs to a connection box. Here it it connected to three "extensions" [?] - one for upstairs, one down and a third for the hall. The connector doesn't contain anything else.

In the down stairs hall, i have a small rectangle box 2" wide by 1" where the downstairs wire connects to further extensions. Again, this is only a connection box.

I have both phone and broadband coming through the single wire.

The fault. When I lift the handset (i have used multiple), there is a dial tone. I am able to make calls and receive them, if I pick the phone up when I dial it with my mobile but none of the handsets ring. I have two base stations connected, each with two handset. including the base station that makes 6 ringers.

All phones are connected using ADSL connectors and I have tried removing everything except an old hardwire phone but still nothing. I have also tried isolating sections of the system to identify wire problems - again nothing.

thanks.

With not even a tinkle on any of them the fault could possily be no ringing current from the telephone exchange ..if my memory serves me right it is 90v, the line will e fine for ougoing calls and you can answer as you say and openreach line test will be ok but beware if you call out a openreach engineer it will be about £120 if the fault is on your system.
Poss another problem is when you say its two grey wires coming in from the street,this is fault prone and is now obsolete but normally with this your phone will tinkle first the go to ring trip

TicklyT · 2 Sep 2010

We still haven't established if the fault is 'No Ringing' or 'Ring Trip'.

If the fault is 'no ringing', you will hear a ringing tone on the handset of a phone used to call your number until you pick up a handset.

If the fault is 'ring trip', you will not hear any ringing tone, or maybe just a single burst of tone, then silence until you lift a handset.

No ringing is usually caused by a component or wire failing open circuit.

Ring trip is usually caused by a short circuit failure, which may be internal or external cable insulation only breaking down when the higher voltage ringing current is applied.

Ringing current is usually about 75 Volts, 17 - 25 Hertz AC, superimposed on the 50 Volts DC usually seen on an idle line.

An old trick to cure bell tinkle on an incorrectly wired phone was to connect the bell via a thermistor. They could make a phone appear to work correctly without going to the bother of finding the root of the problem.... right up to the time the thermistor fails.

JOHNBOY42 · 2 Sep 2010

TicklyT said:
We still haven't established if the fault is 'No Ringing' or 'Ring Trip'.

If the fault is 'no ringing', you will hear a ringing tone on the handset of a phone used to call your number until you pick up a handset.

If the fault is 'ring trip', you will not hear any ringing tone, or maybe just a single burst of tone, then silence until you lift a handset.

No ringing is usually caused by a component or wire failing open circuit.

Ring trip is usually caused by a short circuit failure, which may be internal or external cable insulation only breaking down when the higher voltage ringing current is applied.

Ringing current is usually about 75 Volts, 17 - 25 Hertz AC, superimposed on the 50 Volts DC usually seen on an idle line.

An old trick to cure bell tinkle on an incorrectly wired phone was to connect the bell via a thermistor. They could make a phone appear to work correctly without going to the bother of finding the root of the problem.... right up to the time the thermistor fails.

Thanks for correcting me Tickly as you say it is 75v 17-25 hertz its been a long time and my memory is not what it used to be

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Help - Phones have stopped ringing!

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